What you need to know to start?

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Aled_King

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I am a self taught guitarist, and have managed to teach myself how to play plenty of songs over the last couple of years. However, now I am writting music it is much more difficult to get by without the theory behind me.

I have written a few songs which I am happy with, but this has been on a completly by ear, trial and error basis, till I like the was the chords fit together.

I have recently starting looking at online music theory guides, but there is so much information.

What would you say are the key, most important elements of music theory needed to help a young musician write music?

Thank
Aled
 
Know your:

1: Keys
2: Scales and modes
3: circle of 4th's/5th's

These are the most basic of music theory. They can at least help you get to the next step by knowing where you are in the music.
 
I tell ya, I took music theory in all 4 years of high school and have been playing since I was 9. I've got a good understanding of music theory, but I still write my songs based on the way they feel. And most of that comes from experimenting with different chord progressions and positions.

I think dissecting good songs to see why they work might help. Suggest beatles tunes. The cirlce of 5ths, scales and chord variations help a lot. But to me, nothing beats just hacking through the writing to see what works best for your songs.

Come to think of it, I guess the music theory does help when I'm tracking backing instruments like bass and piano. Mostly it's knowing the scales and what notes are part of each chord that's most important.

Hope that helps. :o
 
Know your:

1: Keys
2: Scales and modes
3: circle of 4th's/5th's

These are the most basic of music theory. They can at least help you get to the next step by knowing where you are in the music.

Cool tool to help with chords and keys:

Chord Wheel

Even if you don't buy the chord wheel, the Chord Wheel site has some instructive info on how songs naturally "modulate" between keys, using well known songs as an example.
 
I've got a good understanding of music theory, but I still write my songs based on the way they feel. And most of that comes from experimenting with different chord progressions and positions.

I think you(me as well) have forgotten how your theoretical knowledge informs how you generate music based on the way you feel. While you feel yu are 'experimenting' your choices will be informed by your pre-existing knowledge (this can be a benefit an a curse, but it is always present when we create).

Just feeling it is like have red, yellow and blue paints, music theory teaches us how to mix colours in prescribed ways and also offers the parameters of experimentation - above all it give us a wider palette of colours to choose from as we compose.

I would second above comments a little theory (Keys, modes) to give you the means to analyse a lot of other music.

What I might add is some concept of arranging or other sounds/instruments that might develop your songs further - particularly if you have a decent midi module/samples - even understanding the potential interplay between bass and drums can significantly improve a song.
 
Trust you ears, you heart and your soul more than theory. Theory can logically explain why something sounds right (V resolves to the I, etc.) - but if your ears tell you something does not sound right, you don't need any precise knowledge of theory to determine why.

That being said, some basic theory makes sense and most musicians know more theory than they realize - as an example most people know a I-IV-V progression (C-F-G as an example) - but if a band leader calls out "let's do a I-IV-V progression in C, many musicians would say "what"?

I have found the most useful knowledge is first understanding scales and then understanding what chords could logically be in a chord progression - based on those scales (including relative minors). From there I simply try to develop a melody that I find pleasing within the chord structure. Certainly the circle of 4ths/5ths is a strong tool once you understand the logic (theory) of what a 4th or 5th means.

Since the melody must be based on a harmonic chord progression (and even a guitar riff has to be built over a progression) - understanding which chords are logical is a good writing tool. As an example, if you know that the most logical chords in a major scale is I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii you already know some basic chords available to you. Naturally, there can be many exceptions (as examples, a major 2, 3 or 6 may work, etc.) but with a basic knowledge of scales you can go directly to some chords rather than struggling to find a chord that works.

If you are writing a song and you know the first chord will be C major, you already know that Dm-Em-F-G and Am are logical chords to consider (if you understand basic scales). If you know that it is common for a chorus to start on the IV or V you then know that the F or G will likely be a key chord and you can build a chord progression and in turn develop a melody that works.

For what it's worth, I'm self taught on several instruments, but I have taught myself a reasonable amount of theory - however, the majority of what I play and write depends less on correct musical theory and more on what I think sounds good. While I suspect I could analyse what I do to justify it from a theory application - I see no need. I trust my ears.
 
Some good info given here already.

I'll add, specifically, learn the harmonized major scale. This is basically what mikeh was describing above --- the pattern of chords in a major key: I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - viiº

Uppercase Roman numerals indicate major chords, lower case minor, and the º symbol stands for diminished.

Understanding this requires the basic preliminary knowledge of scales, intervals, key signatures (circle of 5ths, etc.). From there, you learn how to build triads, how to harmonize the major scale, etc.

After that, there is much more to learn if you'd like, but you're more than likely using some "theory" devices even if you don't know it! :o)
 
That chord wheel looks like a very handy tool, however, I don't think he ships them to England?

A bit pricey over there but:

amazon in uk

amazon in uk 2

No idea why amazon uk and amazon here as well each have two different postings with two different prices. I got mine at the local guitar shop, where it was in the sheet music/book section.

I got interested in theory when I got a home keyboard and was searching around for piano chord charts. I think my amateurish writing has improved some, but don't know if it is due to the knew knowledge of having the keyboard. Somehow the best ideas seem to occur while at the keyboard these days. One site that helped me some:

chordmaps

Good luck with it!
 
...

I pretty much learned 99.9% of what I know theory wise (which aint a WHOLE lot, but its a decent amateur's start... lol) on "Wikipedia".....

once you get several key concepts down, more and more of pages that used to seem gobbledygook start t make a bit of sense; if you dont undrstand a term on a WIKIpedia music theory page, you just "click" on it, and try to learn THAT...

and its free, as well as very powerful.

I dont see music theory as having changed in any substantial way in a VERY long time... only styles of popular music really change...

the underlying concepts were well established quite some time ago.

wikipedia is your friend (wink, nod!)
 
Since the melody must be based on a harmonic chord progression (and even a guitar riff has to be built over a progression)



Hi Aled,

Whist I agree with most of what mikeh says I have to add an alternative to what's implied by that statement. It equally true that a chord progression can be constructed UNDER an existing melody. A melody or riff doesn't really have to be "based on" or "built over" a chord progression at all. The exact reverse is not only possible (writing the melody or riff first and then choosing one of a great many possible different chord progressions, or other complimentary ways of supporting the main melody) but many composers would claim that it's the better way to go.


Whilst it’s quite common now to write songs from a chords first perspective (especially among pop style guitar players) my understanding is that it’s a relatively recent approach in musical history terms. Melody was, and still is in many instances, king of the hill. Chordal harmony wasn’t used at all for many centuries, but when it did arrive its job was to support the melody rather than driving it. Unless you’re happy to risk being pushed down all too familiar melodic paths by focusing on popular chord progressions, I think that it’s still a pretty sound idea to put the melody first.

For instance, if I write a tune just to play on my clarinet or sax I don’t consider chords at all. They’re one note at a time machines. Similarly, if I’m making a tune up by singing it then I don’t think about them there either (I’m not that hot yet at singing chords....funnily enough... ;) ). On piano I think of the melody first and harmony (which many not be full chords) second. Only when playing rhythm guitar (which I admittedly do a fair bit) do I think in terms of chord progressions. Even then I try and keep the idea of the melody strongly in mind, knowing that there are multiple ways of harmonising with each note of the melody - all of which can give a different effect. some more dramatically different than others.

We all take different approaches of course - which is great. But here’s what I’m trying to master. Others may differ.

Scales:

I don’t believe that you need to grind through heaps of them, or commit loads to memory, but a solid understanding of how they work - and what the whole point of them is - is a terrific starting point. Basically, scales are a neat way of using a set of guidelines to select a smaller and more efficient team to do a job for you instead of floundering around trying all 12 notes. I don’t have to stick to the exact set once I’ve chosen it, but understanding the underlying ideas has been invaluable.

Keys:

Keys are very closely related to scales but aren’t exactly the same thing. They’re more about establishing a “tonal centre” that the music will feel a strong pull towards. Finding out what that means in practice was a big bonus.

Melody:

If you write songs, don’t forget that the singer is the star of the show. The singer gets to tell the story, they also get to stand in the spotlight on stage, get their picture on the album cover, and score all the best groupies. They do this by singing the melody line, one note at a time. Other musicians are mostly replaceable, but a good singer is gold dust. I try to give them (especially when it’s me :D ) something to work with - a good melody.

Good melody works because it goes somewhere and says something, and it packs some kind of emotional punch. It does this by doing things like varying the intervals (jumps between one note and the next) the duration and volume of each note, etc. - and its inseparable mate is rhythm. I’m trying to get a feel for as many tricks, strategies and methods as I can.

Rhythm:

Rhythm is a vital part of music, and often overlooked in discussions. But it’s crucial. I try and spend time listening to music and concentrating just on the rhythm to see how it’s being used to create different effects. I even took a few drum lessons to help improve my understanding of it, and thought it money very well spent.

Harmony:

An endless subject. You can use anything from a few supporting notes per bar to elaborate arrangements with multiple chord changes and many layers of different instrumental parts. I’ve at least tried and get a few clues about what I’m trying to harmonise with what, and some of the possible ways of choosing what to use. There’s a great many options that can guide and inform the choices, but I’d agree that the ultimate judge is always your ear - plus the collective ears of your intended audience (you can still sometimes fool yourself when you’re so close to your own creations).

Above all, I’m a huge believer in not being afraid of learning music theory. It’s a bit confusing at first, especially the terminology, but it’s not a set of rigid or constricting rules, it’s a set of great tools. I’m not against somebody insisting on re-inventing the wheel if they want to (and I wish the makers of supermarket trolleys would try it sometime) but I don’t want to miss the chance to benefit from the collective experience and wisdom of thousands of musicians over many centuries. A good grasp of theory seems to me like a wonderful set of spanners - but it doesn’t insist on telling me what to build.

Good luck, it's worth the study. :)

Cheers,

Chris
 
Music theory is a tool; a very useful one but a tool all the same. So are instrument proficiencies, lyric writing abilities, and creativity to mention a few. Like any guild tradesman, you should be proficient with as many tools of your craft as possible. This is true for cobblers, silversmiths, cabinet makers, songwriters, and ...... (Insert your craft here.)

If you are serious about songwriting then you owe it to yourself to gain as much knowledge and as many skills as possible. They will be your 'tools' of the trade.

If you aren't serious, that's OK too. Then just have fun with it.
 
Hi again Aled,


On another thread, I promised you that I'd add some links after checking a few things, so here goes. I can’t find rules specifically banning mentioning books or linking out, so this seems harmless enough. Apologies to the moderators if that’s not so, and I’m sure they’ll tidy it up and set me straight if I’m wrong.

Firstly, a couple of general tips about learning theory.

When you first start it’s almost inevitably confusing. It’s crammed full of weird new terms, names, and concepts. Not only that, the writers always seem to explain everything using a whole bunch of other new terms you don’t really have a handle on yet either. Worse still, the writers are alway experts so they’ve long ago forgotten what it was like NOT to know. What it felt like to be a newb who hasn’t a clue what any of it means. People who can teach or write, using simple terms in a logically unfolding order as if they only found out five minutes ago too, have a rare ability.

So if it all seems confusing and complicated it’s not you. It was the same for all of us, and the first few stages are always going to be a bit of a pain. But if you slug away, and make sure you go over the basic steps several times until it sticks, then it picks up speed and gets clearer and clearer. The big mistake is to rush in, dash about like a mad dog, sniffing at everything, jumping in to some topics way to early and generally confusing yourself. Which is of course exactly what we all do. But so long as we know that, and are cool about going back and working through careful as well, then it’s not too tough.

Terms like triplet, trio, third, iii, triad, tritone, etc do look pretty geeky. But, one way or another, they all refer to three of something - and, hey, we can all do three. A lot of theory is about picking fairly small teams and arranging them in different ways to get effects.

On that theme, don’t read too much without stopping and giving yourself practical examples. Pick up your instrument and play what you just read. And do all the exercises in the text. Yes, REALLY do them, don’t just read through and tell yourself you get it. REALLY do the exercises. It sticks better and saves time in the long run. Writing things out (and playing) are well known ways of reinforcing the temporary knowledge that you got through your eyes.

If you can possibly get access to a keyboard when you read theory I think that it’s a great help. It’s very easy to visualise the theory on a keyboard as you learn it. Unlike a guitar, which has notes repeated all over the neck, not just in octave jumps, but notes of the same pitch repeated in different places on other strings, the keyboard lays them all out in a neat line. The natural notes are all white keys, the sharps/flats are all black. When you play a scale its form and logic shows up with great clarity. At it's simplest level, using only the white keys is a complete C major scale (or a natural A minor scale for that matter). As I mentioned on the other thread it’s a breeze to assemble all those fancy chord names, because all they boil down to is how many spaces to leave between one finger and the next

You can also do chord inversions easily on a keyboard (same notes different order). With guitar we’re often stuck with a rather limited array of choices when it comes to rearranging notes that we can actually get our fingers to reach. It’s easier to see on a keyboard, and easier to re-use the same basic ideas and patterns.

Even if you only print out some diagrams of an octave or two on a keyboard, and use them to physically draw out the concepts you’re learning it will help. Especially with seeing instantly, for example, how a CMajor varies from a Cminor chord, a C augmented from a Cdiminished, a CSus 2 from a Csus4, a C7 from a CMaj7, etc.

On that theme, a keyboard is also very handy for a songwriter because you can try out melody and chords at the same time. You don’t have to be a master pianist to do this, and it’s a major reason why a great many songwriters have used piano as one of their tools for composing (including folks like Lennon and McCartney). You can fiddle around with your melody in the right hand and try out a range of chords with the left, or you can try working out a bass line with your left hand and play either the melody or chords in the right, or.... well, the possibilities are pretty much endless.

But enough waffle from me. Geez, I do waffle on...:rolleyes:

Websites:

This is a very good free introductory course. Even if you already know half of what you read, work through it all.

The Basic Elements of Music

Then move on to the expanded version. You’ll sometimes be linked back to the first course, and you don’t need to do it all again. But I’d still recommend doing the basic one first. The more thoroughly you build your foundation, the easier it will be to keep building.

Understanding Basic Music Theory

Guitar and Theory Forum

Guitarnoise

This is a great forum for guitar players. It’s fairly low key but there are some excellent regulars, ranging from amateur plunkers and local pub rockers through to top flight teachers. The theory forum is excellent with two guys in particular - NoteBoat (Tom Serb, performer and music school owner) and Fretsource- who have both written theory books and are very generous with accurate advice. There’s also a heap of free lessons (if you dig through the lousy index) and articles by David Hodge who is a performer, teacher and author of The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Playing Bass Guitar. He’s another friendly and helpful guy who chips in with submissions and help on the SSG Songwriting forum. The SSG (Sunday Songwriters Group) is currently run by a guy called Vic Lewis who is from the North of England and is also very helpful. He sets a weekly challenge. I wouldn’t bother too much with the other Songwriting forum as it’s mostly full of pretty poor lyrics with no music.

The ‘Idiots’ series of books also has a number of titles by Michael Miller which I’ve found useful too. Books on Theory, Composing, Music History, using Cubase, and so on. I’m sure that those series of books are not to everybody’s taste, but I’ve picked up plenty of useful information from the ones that I’ve read. I expect there are many similar competing titles which all have their strength and weaknesses. Miller's Theory book has proved handy, but there were odd things like listing 60 Major and minor scales without thinking to mention that you'll see (and use) a tiny fraction of those over and over again, some rarely, and some never. That sort of stuff is good for reference but can blow you away a bit if you're reading through for the first time. Sites like Amazon often allow you to browse the first few contents pages to see what you can expect to get. Click the tiny white triangles on the right to see more pages

Good luck. Just don't try and digest too much at once, and chew slowly and you’ll be fine. And NO question is too dumb - if something is confusing, join GN and ask.

Cheers,

Chris
 
...

to add?

dont fall into the "mystical ability" trap... and the closely related "golden ears" trap...

mystical ability trap = high end composers and songwriters, and the people that write "copy" for them, seem to always hold out the idea in print and media that these people posess something "special". The idea is perhaps reinforced in todays world, where producers "pluck" young people (usually cute girls...) and surround them with quite simply the VERY best team of lyric and music writers, purchase an array of the best songs, hire really good hired guns for them, and record/mix them in very expensive studios... then, they want to maintain that these people are "special" and just "feel" the music in some way the "average" person can never hope to. *big dramatic sigh*

golden ears trap = just what it sounds like. i spent 20 years believing I was "tone deaf". Truthfully, if you hit 2 different keys on a piano, and they dont sound the same?? your not tone deaf. Up front, I couldn't always hear the bad effects of compresion, and couldn't run home to duplicate a simple melody I heard on the radio... 4 years later of a hobby, and I begin to do these things here and there. Your ears begin to hear "intervals" between notes, and you can guess what scale is being used, and can begin to mix better.

every "jump" I've ever taken has been the application of understanding another piece of the music theory puzzle. My one buddy that listens infrequently to my little ditties remarked "hm... your starting to crack the code, it sounds like" and thats a good analogy, LMAO, I feel like I am trying to figure out how to solve a Rubik's cube, LMAO


the one thing I am truly curious about... is how people that have been doing music for a couple decades "see", "hear", and "visualize" ntes in their head.

I am only starting to, and I definitely dont "hear" them... its not exactly a color, and its not exactly a "bar graph"... its somethign inbetween I cant quite put my finger on. I have always been curious...

remember... golden ears my @$$ !!! Beethoven was deaf!!
 
add more?

Beware of bullshit and bollocks.

And recognise that it can come from the taught/self taught who know all the theory, just as much as from those who wouldn't know a "crotchet from a hatchet"*:D



*from a lyric by Chas & Dave
 
Last edited:
to add?

dont fall into the "mystical ability" trap... and the closely related "golden ears" trap...

mystical ability trap = high end composers and songwriters, and the people that write "copy" for them, seem to always hold out the idea in print and media that these people posess something "special". The idea is perhaps reinforced in todays world, where producers "pluck" young people (usually cute girls...) and surround them with quite simply the VERY best team of lyric and music writers, purchase an array of the best songs, hire really good hired guns for them, and record/mix them in very expensive studios... then, they want to maintain that these people are "special" and just "feel" the music in some way the "average" person can never hope to. *big dramatic sigh*

golden ears trap = just what it sounds like. i spent 20 years believing I was "tone deaf". Truthfully, if you hit 2 different keys on a piano, and they dont sound the same?? your not tone deaf. Up front, I couldn't always hear the bad effects of compresion, and couldn't run home to duplicate a simple melody I heard on the radio... 4 years later of a hobby, and I begin to do these things here and there. Your ears begin to hear "intervals" between notes, and you can guess what scale is being used, and can begin to mix better.

every "jump" I've ever taken has been the application of understanding another piece of the music theory puzzle. My one buddy that listens infrequently to my little ditties remarked "hm... your starting to crack the code, it sounds like" and thats a good analogy, LMAO, I feel like I am trying to figure out how to solve a Rubik's cube, LMAO


the one thing I am truly curious about... is how people that have been doing music for a couple decades "see", "hear", and "visualize" ntes in their head.

I am only starting to, and I definitely dont "hear" them... its not exactly a color, and its not exactly a "bar graph"... its somethign inbetween I cant quite put my finger on. I have always been curious...

remember... golden ears my @$$ !!! Beethoven was deaf!!

Well ... Beethoven went deaf; he wasn't deaf his whole life. I think there's a big difference. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. :)

I just wanted to second SED's sentiments and add that the best way, IMO, to improve your ear is to sing. I don't care if you don't want to be the next Sinatra/Elvis/Stevie Wonder/Eddie Vedder (whatever style you like) or have no aspirations of singing in a band or anything. Singing helps connect your "inner" ear to your external ear better and faster than anything you'll do. Again, this is my opinion, but it's based from my personal experience.

When you learn something like ... "this is what a major 3rd sounds like ... [play C to E on a piano]," listen to it, but then try to sing it as well. Sing by yourself and along with the notes you're playing on a piano or guitar or whatever.

Anyway, SED's right; you can develop your ear. And singing is the best way to do it.
 
Well ... Beethoven went deaf; he wasn't deaf his whole life. I think there's a big difference. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. :).


funny aside... when beethoven was going deaf he cut the legs off his bechstein piano and would then sit on the floor... feeling the sound in his ass...

as to interval recognition... in colleg for those that were having trouble with this... they recommended finding simple melodies that start with that interval and memorize that sound... ie the old startrek theme starts with a min7th...
 
mystical ability trap = high end composers and songwriters, and the people that write "copy" for them, seem to always hold out the idea in print and media that these people posess something "special". The idea is perhaps reinforced in todays world, where producers "pluck" young people (usually cute girls...) and surround them with quite simply the VERY best team of lyric and music writers, purchase an array of the best songs, hire really good hired guns for them, and record/mix them in very expensive studios... then, they want to maintain that these people are "special" and just "feel" the music in some way the "average" person can never hope to. *big dramatic sigh*

golden ears trap = just what it sounds like. i spent 20 years believing I was "tone deaf". Truthfully, if you hit 2 different keys on a piano, and they dont sound the same?? your not tone deaf. Up front, I couldn't always hear the bad effects of compresion, and couldn't run home to duplicate a simple melody I heard on the radio... 4 years later of a hobby, and I begin to do these things here and there. Your ears begin to hear "intervals" between notes, and you can guess what scale is being used, and can begin to mix better.

Those are two wonderful insights!

Elsewhere in this forum we have seen mystiques applied to other aspects of recording, e.g. "What is the secret of mastering?".

There is a tendency to endow the poorly understood with arcane and mystical qualities.

This does no-one any favours; it tends to view musical specialists as some form of awesome elite in possession of a unique and magical gift that lesser mortals dare not essay, and forms a justification for capitulation ("I'm no good, I can't possible do what they are doing").
 
It equally true that a chord progression can be constructed UNDER an existing melody.

This is exactly what a friend and I am doing with a musical project we are currently working on.

In essence, we are gathering original songs from local musicians, and developing our own arrangements and instrumentation for them.

Sometimes we record the source material with the artist singing the song, accompanied by guitar.

We then strip off the guitar, leaving just their vocals.

We then create a completley new musical structure underneath that vocal track, and that new structure often bears little relation to the original accompaniment, i.e. new chord structure, new rhythm. All that remains is the 'foundation' key of the song (but even then we turn majors into minor and so on).

see:http://www.3pin.com.au
 
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