How fragile are Ribbon mics?

[BobbyBalow]

I just picked up two ribbon mics from the group buy and from what I've read, they are fragile. I was wondering what I can/should use them to record. If it helps, I have an ACM-3 and an ACM 900. Ideally I would like to use them for recording guitar, but I don't know if they can survive something like that when it's cranked. If they can do that, what about bass? I'm guessing the kick is out of question unless it is put facing the null side, right?

I would really appreciate any help on this matter! I really don't want to ruin my new mics.

 

[JG96]

Well a cranked amp shouldn't kill your mics, they are great for drums. How powerfull is your amp? And what ever you do don't drop them.

 

[kojdogg]

use a p-pop filter and/or a windscreen-- direct windblasts can be bad.
here's a great article from em with some tips from some famous engineer dudes on using ribbon mics:
http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_ribbon_mic_summit/index.html
keep in mind that sometimes they are referring to much more expensive ribbon mics with some different characteristics (e.g. some of the beyers are hypercardioid-- not figure 8, royers have asymmetrical ribbon placement and therefore a different sound on each side of the figure 8, etc.), but there are some great tips on micing amps, drums, etc. in there.

 

[rmaier]

Thanks for the link, koj. Great article! I'm also a newcomer to ribbons courtesy of the latest group buy, so I guess I might have some company in terms of figuring out how best to use these things.

I'm particularly interested in trying out some of the ideas from the article for classical recordings - classical guitar solos and trios, and maybe some plucked renaissance stuff where some of the ribbon/condenser combinations in the article sound like they might really do the trick. Anyone out there have experiences to share?

 

[kojdogg]

no problem
if you're talking about the mid side setups, you'll need either a mid-side decoder or you'll need to do some math and trickier than usual mixing.

 

[Twinnesota]

no problem
if you're talking about the mid side setups, you'll need either a mid-side decoder or you'll need to do some math and trickier than usual mixing.

In case he doesn't know:

"A mid/side encoder/decoder can be, for example, in the form of a plug-in that is designed to encode (split) the incoming stereo signal into two components: mid/side or, alternatively, mono/stereo pair, and vice versa: decodes mid/side signal pair into stereo signal."

[Your average human, like me, would have no clue what that means]

T

 

[kojdogg]

...but i will add that i have gotten some great results using a condenser and a ribbon not in a mid side array. i used a blue kiwi in cardioid and an oktavamodded nady rm-5 to record my buddy playing a beautiful taylor 814 (the quality of the guitar obviously makes a huge difference). the kiwi went through a channel of a langevin dvc and the ribbon went through an avedis ma-5 lunchbox pre. the awesome thing is that by balancing the two sounds you can totally change the tonality of the resulting mix w/o eq. the ribbon gets the extended midrange (the oktavamod enhancements make a huge difference in the frequency response of the ribbon) and the blue got the highs and lows really nicely. i basically oriented the mics so that they were in each other's nulls.

my buddy loved this and tried it with his group buy mics and stock interface pres at home. he said the results weren't quite as good, but similar. i have a nice room (acoustically) to record in and his isn't quite as acoustically suited for recording, which i think probably made as much or more of a difference than the quality of his mics and pres.

 

[rmaier]

Very cool ideas.

I recently completed a CD for Renaissance vihuela where I used a pair of LCDs in a Blumlein configuration as close mics in combination with a Jecklin array about 8 feet out. I'm happy with the final result but ended up using a transient modification plug to tame some of the transients on the close mic. My idea is that the next time 'round I'll try the ribbons out for the Blumlein and maybe eliminate the need for additional processing. My only experience with ribbons on this particular instrument was with a Karma - a mic that seems to have gotten a pretty favorable response around here - but was way too dark to work on its own.

I guess the reason I haven't bothered messing with the mid/side thing with this instrument is because it's so quiet. How well does a ribbon work 90 degrees off axis on really quiet sources? Hmmm.. guess I should just try it out myself, huh?

And I see your point about the math. I can count to four real good.

 

[kojdogg]

yeah it sounds like you know what you're doing
the thought of using a transient modulation plug on a classical recording might upset some purists, but whatever gets the job done .

 

[BobbyBalow]

Wow thanks for all the info! The link is really helpful! You guys are awesome!

 

[rmaier]

yeah it sounds like you know what you're doing
the thought of using a transient modulation plug on a classical recording might upset some purists, but whatever gets the job done .

Purists, shmurists

On the other hand, I'm digging the sound of traditional stereo techniques.
But you're right - if its the sound you need, its working.

 

[Weasel9992]

Modern ribbons aren't nearly as fragile as they used to be. I put my Fat Heads right up on guitar cabs and use them as drum OH's all the time. I wouldn't put them on the resonant head on a kick drum or anything, but they're pretty sturdy otherwise.

All that said, I'm still more careful with my ribbons than I am with the LDC's and dynamics...store them upright, careful not to expose them to a blast of air, etc.

Frank