Heil PR-30/40 or Kel HM-2d?

[dickiefunk]

I've been having a good look around and have narrowed the choices down to:-

KEL HM-2d, Rode NT-2a, Oktava MK-319

I'm unsure about the KEL because it is voiced like a large diaphragm dynamic. Because of this I'm wondering if it will be too similar to the Heil because this is a dynamic voiced to sound like a condenser!?

I've heard that the NT-2a sounds smoother than the other Rode mics which sounds very tempting. I am worried that it may still sound too harsh and bright?

The has been loads of great stuff about the Oktava MK-319 on the forums but I've heard the quality control can be a little hit or miss? Also, I can't afford the modded version so am wondering how good the original MK-319 will be?

I would really appreciate your info and experiences with these mics!

Thanks

 

[kidvybes]

...first, I have to say, yours is the first bad experience I've heard about concerning any of the Heil mics (although I would have definately recommended trying the PR30 or PR40 rather than the newer "live handheld" version PR35 for studio recording)...I haved been tracking some wonderful vocals (both male & female) on the PR40...the Shure SM7 can also be sweet on female voices...(consider that Michael Jackson's falsetto was so nicely captured on an SM7 for his entire Thriller album)...

...that said, if you're looking for a mic to track this particular female vocalist, I would recommend considering some of the terrific inexpensive ribbon mics that have become so popular (like the Cascade Fathead for example)...I find that ribbon mics can flatter female vocals quite nicely...I have had both the Rode NT2A and the Oktava MK319 (non-modded), neither of which I liked on female voices...the ribbon mic is less likely to impart the crispy, "edgy vibe" so common in the lower priced condensers...and ribbon mics, much like dynamic microphones, are less vulnerable to ambient noise which can be troublesome in an untreated room with a condenser mic...since most of the less expensive ribbon mics are figure-8 by design, using an isolator/shield behind the mic will help limit the mic's rear reflection sensitivity...

...the Rode NT2A, BTW, is a very nice mic (shares the same capsule design as the wonderful Rode K2 valve mic)...

 

[juan162]

The has been loads of great stuff about the Oktava MK-319 on the forums but I've heard the quality control can be a little hit or miss? Also, I can't afford the modded version so am wondering how good the original MK-319 will be?

Thanks

Much of the improvement is gained by the physical modification of the headbasket and the removal of the resonating discs, all of which can be done by yourself. Check out this thread:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=270085&page=2

I was in the same boat as you a while back and ended up sending my mic to this guy:

http://www.billsrecording.com/CDorder/Mod319.html

He does the physical mod as well as an electronics upgrade. He did a great job, was really nice to deal with, and offers a great price. I couldn't be more happy,

Juan162

 

[dickiefunk]

...first, I have to say, yours is the first bad experience I've heard about concerning any of the Heil mics (although I would have definately recommended trying the PR30 or PR40 rather than the newer "live handheld" version PR35 for studio recording).

I was recommended the PR-35 by Bob Heil. He recommended this as the most suitable vocal mic in the Heil range. It uses the same capsule and electronics as the PR-30.

......that said, if you're looking for a mic to track this particular female vocalist, I would recommend considering some of the terrific inexpensive ribbon mics that have become so popular (like the Cascade Fathead for example)...I find that ribbon mics can flatter female vocals quite nicely.

I do have a Thomann T.Bone RM-700 which looks the same as the Cascade Fathead but aven't tried this on her voice yet. I tried it on another vocalist on a track that started very softly to full on belting and couldn't get enough gain from the very soft section. I have recently bought a T.Bone Mic Screen (Reflexion Filter type gadget) that helps with room noise!

I have had both the Rode NT2A and the Oktava MK319 (non-modded), neither of which I liked on female voices.

...the Rode NT2A, BTW, is a very nice mic (shares the same capsule design as the wonderful Rode K2 valve mic)...

How did you find the NT-2a compared to the Oktava MK319? Which of these was the smoothest and least sizzly?

 

[kidvybes]

How did you find the NT-2a compared to the Oktava MK319? Which of these was the smoothest and least sizzly?

...the quality control issues that plagued the Oktava mics back when I purchased mine make it a bit difficult to be objective...maybe mine was a "bad one"...I purchased it for just $69 at a Guitar Center clearance sale, so I wasn't expecting much...on the other hand, the NT2-A is a beautifully designed and constructed mic...not much to compare IMHO...the Rode was far superior...the continuously variable patterns feature allows you to dial in a setting that compliments the voice and style of a singer...lots of "air" but no excessive sizzle...I only sold mine because I upgraded to the K2 valve model...

...I can't comment on the modded Oktava mics, but based on the positive reviews I've seen over the years here on HR.com, the modifications must make major improvements (at least compared to the MK319 I had)...my Oktava was rather dull and lifeless...no "sizzle" but no "air" either...a bit dark and rather flat sounding...I was looking for a good vocal mic and the Oktava was not impressive...

...and you will need a bit more "gain" to drive a ribbon mic, but that would also be the case with many of the broadcast style dynamics like the SM7...60-65dB is minimally needed...

 

[juan162]

...the quality control issues that plagued the Oktava mics back when I purchased mine make it a bit difficult to be objective...maybe mine was a "bad one"...I purchased it for just $69 at a Guitar Center clearance sale, so I wasn't expecting much...on the other hand, the NT2-A is a beautifully designed and constructed mic...not much to compare IMHO...the Rode was far superior...the continuously variable patterns feature allows you to dial in a setting that compliments the voice and style of a singer...lots of "air" but no excessive sizzle...I only sold mine because I upgraded to the K2 valve model...

...I can't comment on the modded Oktava mics, but based on the positive reviews I've seen over the years here on HR.com, the modifications must make major improvements (at least compared to the MK319 I had)...my Oktava was rather dull and lifeless...no "sizzle" but no "air" either...a bit dark and rather flat sounding...I was looking for a good vocal mic and the Oktava was not impressive...

...and you will need a bit more "gain" to drive a ribbon mic, but that would also be the case with many of the broadcast style dynamics like the SM7...60-65dB is minimally needed...

The reason the 319's are so good to mod is that the capsule itself is good, no matter what the quality control. You just have to do some physical mods and upgrades of the electronics. The heart of the mic, the capsule, is good,

Juan

 

[tmix]

I like my Kel HM-2D.
It has a nice thick sound for spoken word and singing,clean but not bright.
Perhaps a little too thick in the 300-375 range which EQs out nicely.
On a male baritone vocalist it was just the thing to use.
I don't have any of the other mics you mentioned, such as the Heils, but I do have a couple of v-67s, A Studio Projects T-3 , B-3 , AT4033 and a Neuman TLM-49 and on this particular vocalist the Kel was the winner.

 

[dickiefunk]

I do have a couple of v-67s, A Studio Projects T-3 , B-3 , AT4033 and a Neuman TLM-49 and on this particular vocalist the Kel was the winner.

How do you find the sound of the B3 compares to the v67g and AT4033?

 

[tmix]

The B3 has hotter output and seems pretty neutral but still a little bigger in the upper mids than the V67 but not as bright as the AT4033. The B3 works well on my voice, but also on a lot of instruments
The AT 4033 has a really thin diaphram and has a LOT of transient response so for strong or sibelant vocalists it is not a good choice. The V67 is a little darker with more mid lows than the 4033 and is not overly bright. I like it better for most loud or gritty vocalists than the other choices, for softer duller vocals the B3 works well.
To be honest the AT 4033 gets very little use in my place. I've used it for cello and Bass voices to bring out a little definition. On brighter stuff, it is too bright a mic.

 

[dkelley]

I actually prefer the pr20 to the pr30 or pr40.

great mic. also his wild looking mics are based on pr20 capsules I think.

 

[mixsit]

I'm really liking the PR22 for live vocal. The mic has rather natural' tone but also strikes a good balance on proximity and distance consistent.
I finally got a chance to try this out to see if it would specifically help on a friend that always gets that classic puffy '58 close up' sound and it worked out great in that respect again there. There's still some tone and eq trade offs, but what mic doesn't?

 

[lingfish]

I did some comparison of male and female vox tracks last night. The mic used are AT4033, ADK Vienna I, SM7 and PR40. Here is my impressions:

AT4033 is fuller than ADK, but a bit muddy on the low end;

ADK is thinnest sounding of all, but quite clean;

SM7 is smoothest, but way too fat for my taste;

And the PR40, to my supprise, is so harsh - even listening throught my all tube headphone amp. And I like it the least.

The mic used is a DMP3, I will try my DIY all tube mic preamp and see.

 

[mixsit]

I did some comparison of male and female vox tracks last night. The mic used are AT4033, ADK Vienna I, SM7 and PR40. Here is my impressions:

AT4033 is fuller than ADK, but a bit muddy on the low end;

ADK is thinnest sounding of all, but quite clean;

SM7 is smoothest, but way too fat for my taste;

And the PR40, to my supprise, is so harsh - even listening throught my all tube headphone amp. And I like it the least.

The mic used is a DMP3, I will try my DIY all tube mic preamp and see.

On mic comparisons I'm always curious particularly when it comes to relative fullness' (like in the first three there) if distance was more or less a constant, or try to compensate for best for each?