The best way to distort a 30W head?

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Jouni

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I got my Sovtek mig-30 in working order with new power-tubes.:)
Tried two sets of Svetlanas, and ended keeping the Sovtek 5881:s.
Unbiased, I heard no differences of any kind between the different tubes.:confused:

Unfortunately, I don't seem to find a good OD/distorted sound!..:mad:
..the cleans are nice though..
Still unbiased, with the mesa V-twin I used with the Fender 185pro solidstate, it gives a horrible kranking sound on bridge pickups, and just farting on neck-pickups.

The issue might lie in the fact that the amp starts clipping when raised to rehearsing levels. thats a bit over halfway, on its volume scale.

I've got:
a Koch and Engl preamp pedals, Varidrive, and as overdrives a Boss modded overdrive, v-stack, Biyang OTD-100, and a black russian Big muff. A Zoom Tri-metal and same series fuzz are also present.

What do you think I should try out?...

Or is the amps overdriving the deathblow of it??

I'd kinda hate to go back to a solidstate for better sound.:eek:
 
Based on this, I'd guess set up a clean sound, and use an entirely separate preamp, or full bore distortion pedal for dirty sounds. Don't hit the front end hard with the pedal, just dial in distortion with no boost. I don't know where to go next if that isn't working. It might just not be the amp for you.
 
Yeah, if it's not supposed to overdrive, get the best clean tone you can out of it then use the multitude of pedals that you have to add an overdrive sound and a lead sound: Clean, OD, Lead, all easy to switch.
 
Thanks for the advices, I'm a n00b with tube-amps..

I like the clean sounds, but my band plays mostly all-out rock-metal stuff, and a decent OD/distorted sound is what I really need...

guess I'll be bagging all the pedals I've got and try them out at the rehealsal place....

I think I was kinda let down, after hearing praises of power-end overdrive on tube amps... It sounded crap, compared to ANY pedal I've tried ever... just.. crackly..:(
 
I had a similar problem (on a Fender amp) the bridge pup sounded scratchy like a cheap fuzz box and the neck pups made a lot of fartlike noises. I replaced the bass control pot on the amp and the problem was cured. I never realized how much difference a bad pot on an amp could make before I had the problem. I can't say you are having the same problem but it is something worth checking before giving up on the amp.
 
Jouni said:
I think I was kinda let down, after hearing praises of power-end overdrive on tube amps... It sounded crap, compared to ANY pedal I've tried ever... just.. crackly..:(
Click to expand...
The amp needs to be designed with distortion in mind. There are a ton of tube amps out there that are meant to give you chimey clean sounds that will just not distort very well. You seem to have one of those.

There is a reason that most people playing metal are going with Marshalls, Mesas, etc... These amps do what you want.

You also have to pay attention to who is giving you advice. 'Distortion' to a guy in a rockabilly band is a whole different thing than it is to a guy in a metal band. There's even a big difference between Black Sabbath distortion, Pantera distortion, and Slipknot distortion. Context is everything and there is not universal solution.
 
Yep, you're probably right on the fact it wasn't designed to distort.:o

I should probably bias the thing so it remains clean on higher volumes??
..then throw a pedal for driven things.
 
You could, or you could go the other way, and run it so it bites a good bit at your normal playing volume, then layer the distortion over that for your dirty sound, and roll off your volume knob a touch for a truly clean sound.
 
I checked the amp out on harmony central.
Your prob isn't uncommon (unless you;re the HC poster)
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Sovtek/Mig+30+Head/10/1
Seems it needs an external preamp (preferably tube) to drive it to distortion.
I have the same issue with the amp I use (a marshall superbass): it doesn't a master vol/gain structure so I use a variety of things, including tube pres, to get that sound - I also use an attenuator to get a chance to get that "cranked" tone.
Good luck.
 
Marginally related note: clipping a tube amp = tube distortion, does it not?
 
rayc said:
I checked the amp out on harmony central.
Your prob isn't uncommon (unless you;re the HC poster)
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Sovtek/Mig+30+Head/10/1
Seems it needs an external preamp (preferably tube) to drive it to distortion.
I have the same issue with the amp I use (a marshall superbass): it doesn't a master vol/gain structure so I use a variety of things, including tube pres, to get that sound - I also use an attenuator to get a chance to get that "cranked" tone.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but the problem isn't that it doesn't overdrive or distort, it does..
(To Steve.H... yes it is tube distorting.)

The problem is as I said, that the distortion sounds more "crackly", not of smooth overdrive of any kind.:(

I am using currently a V-twin tube preamp trying to smooth it out with more distortion, but ending up in a very messy, cranky sound. And at that point, the 30W is barely enough over the drums.....

In my case the mig-30 varies from the one in HC-review also for the bottom end, this thing farts at neck-humbuckers of a Gibson, wouldn't imagine a bass through it..

I'm diving in again today, with all the pedals I own, trying stuff out..
 
steve.h said:
Marginally related note: clipping a tube amp = tube distortion, does it not?
Click to expand...

Generally, but not always. You can overdrive any part of the circuit. In an amp where full distortion was not taken into consideration, it would be very possible for either something besides a tube to distort, or for a tube distortion that is not particularly controllable or musical. There's a world of difference among a Champ, a Dual Rectifier, and a audiophile's power amp.
 
Jouni said:
Thanks, but the problem isn't that it doesn't overdrive or distort, it does..
(To Steve.H... yes it is tube distorting.)

The problem is as I said, that the distortion sounds more "crackly", not of smooth overdrive of any kind.:(

I am using currently a V-twin tube preamp trying to smooth it out with more distortion, but ending up in a very messy, cranky sound. And at that point, the 30W is barely enough over the drums.....
Click to expand...
Just a thought: Have you tied it with a different speaker cabinet? Maybe the speaker is giving up instead of the amp.

Also, maybe a new set of tubes in in order.

Someone on Gearslutz said that he heard that these things are designed for 110 volt power and really don't handle the other power schemes well...
 
ermghoti said:
Generally, but not always. You can overdrive any part of the circuit. In an amp where full distortion was not taken into consideration, it would be very possible for either something besides a tube to distort, or for a tube distortion that is not particularly controllable or musical. There's a world of difference among a Champ, a Dual Rectifier, and a audiophile's power amp.
Click to expand...
Ah, just making sure :)

My buddy has a 70's Twin that I couldn't distort for the life of me!
 
Hmm... the plot thickens....

Tried it today, with an overdrive--> sounded pretty ok..
Then clean, well its clipping, but didn't sound as bad as before.:)

Is there a period where tubes are "broke in"??..


-the cab was used, could be something there, but it DID sound better today..

Then, for the hell of it, I threw a distortion box in front, (Zoom Tri-metal) and it sounded like BEJESUS what was that!!?:eek:
..There was clarity, bottom, and a hell of a lot of "body" in there..
Nice in a way but lacking the dynamics, and ability to hear the higher strings due to distortion.

AND... I saw a webpage about 6l6-amps, and cathode biasing, and there was photos about normal and too hot tubes, and mine are not biased too hot.

-The amp is probably Fine.
-The cab is slightly suspect.
-I need a tube distortion, with good dynamics.

Why did it sound better with an analog distortionpedal than a tube overdrive?..

But, it was playable today, I'm getting there. Thanks for all the advice!
 
Jouni said:
Why did it sound better with an analog distortionpedal than a tube overdrive?..
Click to expand...
An overdrive will just add a little dirt to the signal without taking away the dynamics. A distortion box takes away all the dynamics. It's the dynamics that are farting the amp (or cabinet) out, that's why the distortion box sounded better.
 
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Also, the overdrive forces the preamp into, well, overdrive, which your amp doesn't do well. Again, there's a big difference in the structure of a modern cascading gain preamp, and a simple buffer to carry the signal to the tone stack. This is a reason that heavy distortion used to come from a box exclusively. Regardless of whether all-out fuzz comes from a box of transistors, or three or four 12ax7s, that pre-power-amp tone is thin, wooley, spitty, just plain bad. You'll find clips online of people's line-outs or effects sends, they're awful. Taking that mess, and shoving it through a power amp pushed to the edge of clipping, results in the sound your ears recognize.
 
The last replies made total sense...

Yeah, the Sovtek wasn't made a high-gain amp, so I'll just take the fuzz from somewhere else.

And truely enough, if I turn down the amp while distorted, it sounds awfully fizzy and lifeless.
The sound regains the thickness and body when the amp is cranked back up. Luckily, it also loses the ear-piercing fizz along the way.

...just need the right box, could try a fuzz even.
 
Jouni said:
The last replies made total sense...

Yeah, the Sovtek wasn't made a high-gain amp, so I'll just take the fuzz from somewhere else.

And truely enough, if I turn down the amp while distorted, it sounds awfully fizzy and lifeless.
The sound regains the thickness and body when the amp is cranked back up. Luckily, it also loses the ear-piercing fizz along the way.

...just need the right box, could try a fuzz even.
Click to expand...

No tube amp is going to do well if you have it turned down low and try to force power tube distortion artificially.
That`s why folks are turning to lower wattage tube amps.
Fizzy distortion is however something I would associate with modern tube amps with pcb`s instead of point to point wiring, a solid state rectifier and of course fixed bias rather than cathode bias.
A cathode bias amp will generally give you a darker, fatter distorted sound that a fixed bias one.
Fender Twins?
yeah - 60/100/130 watts of fat, clean noise.

As to your particular amp, I would recommend getting a competent tech to check it out, bias it, etc. and THEN see what you have as a starting point that you know is good.
 
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