I need new tubes... make some recommendations!

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I use a 12AT7 in my 1965(ish) Epi 101 single EL84 amp. All the 12AX7s I tried tended to overpower the EL84 and it got farty sounding. Much better with the 12AT7 -- is it as simple as burning up a resistor? I can fix that :)

I have a Kalamazoo Model One single ended amp with a single EL84 output tube, and I did the same thing. It worked wonders!
 
So you're saying that if you put a tube that draws less current in place of one that draws more current you're creating a distressful situation inside the amp?

No I said that if you put a tube that handles less current[12ax7] into a circuit meant for a 12at7 that is feeding it more current that you will cook the 12ax7 causing other components to fail.


I use a 12AT7 in my 1965(ish) Epi 101 single EL84 amp. All the 12AX7s I tried tended to overpower the EL84 and it got farty sounding. Much better with the 12AT7 -- is it as simple as burning up a resistor? I can fix that :)

Yes resistors are easy to replace. But in modern amps with printed circuit boards if you burn the traces it becomes a little more tricky to repair.
 
No I said that if you put a tube that handles less current[12ax7] into a circuit meant for a 12at7 that is feeding it more current that you will cook the 12ax7 causing other components to fail.

You folks are all kidding, right?

1. There's exactly one rating that matters in preamp tubes (assuming the pinouts are the same), and that's the voltage.

2. The tube heater is a resistive load and will draw exactly as much current as it needs to draw. No more, no less. So there's no difference in tube life expectancy caused by substituting a device with lower or greater current draw. That's like asking whether a light bulb will burn out sooner if you hook it up with a heavier gauge lamp cord. It won't....

3. If your amp can't produce enough current for the tube heater, it will result in a voltage drop and the wires will heat up and the tube's sound won't be as good (or if the current limit is caused by a fuse, it will blow the fuse). Since we're just talking about a 12V current source, though, I can't imagine an amp design not being able to provide enough current. We're dealing with current in the hundreds of milliamps here. It's peanuts. The cheapest, smallest regulator or Zener you could buy should handle that little trickle....

4. All of the 12A*7 tubes are designed for a 150 mA, 12.6V supply. While there is individual variation from manufacturer to manufacturer, if your amp doesn't provide at least 150 mA, it is broken by design, and if a tube draws more than that, it is defective. In other words, the supply for a 12AX7 has to provide exactly the same voltage and current as the supply for a 12AY7 or a 12AT7 or a 12AU7 or....

In other words, you won't have any problem swapping around preamp tubes. You probably shouldn't be swapping power tubes without rebiasing, but you really can't go wrong swapping out preamp tubes as long as it's a 12A*7 or any other pin-compatible 12V tube (5965, 6072, etc.)....

One caveat: if the tubes happen to be arranged in a push-pull configuration, make sure you're using similar tubes for both sides or else you'll have a really weird output. :)

Over at the Carvin boards, some guys with way more knowledge than I have, stated that certain resistors in some amps may not be rated for the extra current draw. They also showed pictures of toasted resistors and circuit boards which resulted from using 12at7s. Another person stated that his amp fried when he substituted 12au7s in place of 12ax7s. Some amps may be fine with the substitutions but just make sure before you do it.

My bet would be a defective tube, but if not, Carvin should recall the amps. If they can't handle a 12AU7, you can pretty much guarantee that they can't handle a lot of 12AX7 models, either.
 
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My Twin has 6 6l6's and I've been told that I can take the 2 outside tubes out to tame the volume. Is this ,in fact,correct???

Sorry to hi-jack thethread BTW...:o
 
I dont think that the 12ax7 will pull more current to get the higher gain...its saturation point is much lower than the tubes that will be cleaner 12at7 so they in turn must have that point higher requiring more voltage which is why PC boards on new amps can get hotter than they should...my tube stuff for the most part has no PC boards inside...but it is also all from the 1960s...and things were made very different back then.
 
So, swapping 12a*7's ain't gonna screw nothing up??? Cool.
 
No I said that if you put a tube that handles less current[12ax7] into a circuit meant for a 12at7 that is feeding it more current that you will cook the 12ax7 causing other components to fail.

It doesn't work that way. You can't "feed" a tube (or anything else) too much current; it draws what it draws because of the impedance it presents to the power supply circuit. If a circuit has more current delivering capacity than a component is designed to handle, that's a good thing; the component will only draw what it needs as is dictated by its impedance.
 
It doesn't work that way. You can't "feed" a tube (or anything else) too much current; it draws what it draws because of the impedance it presents to the power supply circuit. If a circuit has more current delivering capacity than a component is designed to handle, that's a good thing; the component will only draw what it needs as is dictated by its impedance.

I only have a basic knowledge of this stuff so bear with me. You are saying that the value of the plate resistors in a circuit have no affect on the current?
 
My Twin has 6 6l6's and I've been told that I can take the 2 outside tubes out to tame the volume. Is this ,in fact,correct???

Sorry to hi-jack thethread BTW...:o

It will only lower your volumes by 3 decibels. Nothing very noticeable... it might overdrive sooner too.

But, in other news, I figure I am going to invest in some JJ tubes for the entire amp. I was reading up on the eurotubes site provided buy cobradenim (thanks!), and apparently stock Sovteks they put in these b-52 amps make it sound terrible. The guy on the site (and some other reviewers) suggested that replacing them all across the board made the amp come to life and hold its own against other higher gain amps. So, I think these JJs will be pretty good sounding. Hope it works out okay... now I just have to get a multimeter.
 
It will only lower your volumes by 3 decibels. Nothing very noticeable... it might overdrive sooner too.

But, in other news, I figure I am going to invest in some JJ tubes for the entire amp. I was reading up on the eurotubes site provided buy cobradenim (thanks!), and apparently stock Sovteks they put in these b-52 amps make it sound terrible. The guy on the site (and some other reviewers) suggested that replacing them all across the board made the amp come to life and hold its own against other higher gain amps. So, I think these JJs will be pretty good sounding. Hope it works out okay... now I just have to get a multimeter.

Only 3db??? Oh well if it overdrives sooner that's the goal. I hate running pedals.
I have JJ's in the power stage and I have had no prob's whatsoever...
Thanks for the info....
 
There is also the option of a power soak or maybe that THD unit...they will act as a dummy load along with your speaker and allow you to get your tone without going deaf...keep your tubes intact if you allready like the results, and try this instead.
 
I only have a basic knowledge of this stuff so bear with me. You are saying that the value of the plate resistors in a circuit have no affect on the current?

No, I am saying that any electrical component draws current from a power supply in relation to its impedance, i.e., a 1000 ohm resistor to ground will draw 1 Ampere from a 1000 volt power supply regardless of whether the supply is capable of delivering 1 amp or a million amps. It could be that a plate resistor could be too low for a particular tube and therefore draw too much current through it, but that would be the fault of the resistor, not the power supply, and I'd think it would be more of a problem for the tube than for the supply.

Sorry, I did not mean to come across as a tube amp expert; I only know enough to keep from getting killed by them. ;^) I was just reacting to the verb "push" in what you said; a power supply cannot "push" too much current through a component, though in a series circuit you can certainly "pull" too much current through one component if another component in series with it has too low an impedance.
 
Hey guys, on the B-52 website, they list their AT-212 amplifier with a phase inverter tube. On their specs for my ST-6012 amplifier, they don't list a phase inverter tube. Does that mean it doesn't have one?
 
Hey guys, on the B-52 website, they list their AT-212 amplifier with a phase inverter tube. On their specs for my ST-6012 amplifier, they don't list a phase inverter tube. Does that mean it doesn't have one?


most amps require one... almost always a 12at7.. likely the one closest to the output tubes... dont know where your gonna get a schemo for it....
 
Prob got a PI as ab tube amps need these. DmentedC right. This tube is a fun one to play with. By hthat I mean, trying different ones. See Hamptone.com as an imbalance in the PI position can do voodoo to the last stage of amplifier. I think there is a website called SchematicHeaven summin that may have schematic. I find the PI a fascinating tube as the balance of the signal path can be corrected (or put off balance) as desired. I prefer a balanced tube but harp players seem to like theirs a little off. For gtr, "balanced triode, if I remember right" will make a push pull, class ab amp run right. Can't really say as I have not seen schematic of your amp but my guess goes along Dementedchord lines. In most amps I have seen it is the last "little" preamp lookin tube before the "larger" rectifier and power tubes. PS Your amp may have SS rectifier thus no tube rectifier and no tube. With that your last tube in the chain will ordinarily be the PI. Physical designs vary as do topologys. (sp). Disclaimer: not a technichian, or a typist for that matter. Hope that all helped.
 
I figure I am going to invest in some JJ tubes for the entire amp. I was reading up on the eurotubes site provided buy cobradenim (thanks!), and apparently stock Sovteks they put in these b-52 amps make it sound terrible. The guy on the site (and some other reviewers) suggested that replacing them all across the board made the amp come to life and hold its own against other higher gain amps. So, I think these JJs will be pretty good sounding. Hope it works out okay... now I just have to get a multimeter.

Bob sells those on www.Eurotubes.com as well. He's a real nice and knowledgeable guy. He'll fix you up.
 
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