recording upright bass

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c-j-devine

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an one have any experience recording an upright bass? (pref bluegrass)

if so, what kind of mics, how many mics, how big/small of room, out board gear, etc. did/do you use?

anything to avoid?
 
Last bluegrass group I did, I used one Behringer ECM8000 omni mic on the bass, even with the neck joint, pointed down at the floor, slightly in front of the body. Room was 11' x 11' with a 7' ceiling. No eq or outboards were needed.

Here's a cut from that session:



I used MXL 603's on all the other instruments (mandolin, guitar, banjo, and dobro).
 
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Every time my upright's been recorded different mics and placements were used, and they all sounded good - AKG, Neumann, Royer, MXL, large and small condensers and a ribbon. There were always engineers who listened to the bass and knew their mics.

The biggest problem I've had is with rooms or partitions accenuating particular frequencies/notes. The bigger rooms/immediate spaces have had fewer problems.

In a bluegrass setting, we were all in a large room separated by acoustic partitions. The partitions near me made my low G and the open G resonate wildly. After adjusting my position and the partitions everything went great.

Another space was a large attic with a high peaked ceiling and lots of things breaking up surfaces, but there were a couple notes that always jumped out until we found the exact place and direction in the room.
 
Whale Bone said:
Every time my upright's been recorded different mics and placements were used, and they all sounded good - AKG, Neumann, Royer, MXL, large and small condensers and a ribbon. There were always engineers who listened to the bass and knew their mics.
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And there's your answer. right there.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Last bluegrass group I did, I used one Behringer ECM8000 omni mic on the bass, even with the neck joint, pointed down at the floor, slightly in front of the body. Room was 11' x 11' with a 7' ceiling. No eq or outboards were needed.

Here's a cut from that session:

Click to expand...

Red Wing??? That's Union Maid, a Woody Guthrie song... unless Woody "borrowed" the melody.
 
JTC111 said:
Red Wing??? That's Union Maid, a Woody Guthrie song... unless Woody "borrowed" the melody.
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also done by old crow medicine show

"you can't scare me,
i'm stickin to the union,
i'm stickin to the union,
i'm stickin to the union,

ohhhh you can't scare me,
i'm stickin to the union,
i'm stickin to the union,
till the day i die"

great song!

the bass in red wing sounded a bit muddy to me.
I'm lookin for something a bit cleaner.

as far as engineers, we can't afford that luxury at this point.

Thanks for the suggestions so far! Keep em commin'
 
Woody often "borrowed" popular folk melodies and wrote new words to those tunes.
 
I've had good results with a Dave Gage Realist DI'ed and an AT 2021 on the treble side F hole.
If ya' wanna check it out the mix is here..."Full Throttle.."

http://www.myspace.com/theslickjacks

Shitty mix I know. Tascam DP 01 FX CD with some shitty Klipsch monitors.I was just getting into this whole home recoding thing a the time.
 
c-j-devine said:
the bass in red wing sounded a bit muddy to me. I'm lookin for something a bit cleaner.

as far as engineers, we can't afford that luxury at this point.
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Well, keep checking this thread; maybe a real engineer will pop in and offer some advice. :D
 
Subtle hint to the OP. You might want to google up Harvey. You've gotten more then your money's worth here already.:D

Harvey, I'm glad you've decided to stick around!
 
Funny, "Cousin Jake” Tullock never complained about his bass sound when I recorded Flatt and Scruggs in the 60's; Mitch Jayne never complained when I ran sound for the Dillards; and certainly Roger Bush had nothing but compliments when I ran sound for the Kentucky Colonels every Sunday for several months.

Go figure.
 
c-j-devine said:
also done by old crow medicine show
the bass in red wing sounded a bit muddy to me.
I'm lookin for something a bit cleaner.
Click to expand...

I think the Red Wing recording has a full, round bass that sounds nice and fits with the other instruments. But it's only one of a million tonal options. Could be the strings. Could be the way the player's plucking the strings - try with your thumb, then with the side of your finger, then with one and two finger tips (like electric). They all sound different. then there's where on the string.... Mic placement will have a huge effect. Listening to the bass will also reveal where a 'brighter' sounding spot is to record from. I really think you can just go with the mic you have and play with placement and room position. I've gotten surprisingly good results from a pair of SM57s (one near and one far) when it was all I had.
 
c-j-devine said:
the bass in red wing sounded a bit muddy to me.
I'm lookin for something a bit cleaner.
Click to expand...

I finally got around to listening to it and it didn't sound muddy to me. Granted it's only an MP3, but what were you using to listen?
 
c-j-devine said:
an one have any experience recording an upright bass? (pref bluegrass)

if so, what kind of mics, how many mics, how big/small of room, out board gear, etc. did/do you use?

anything to avoid?
Click to expand...

Isn't it common for a Bluegrass band to all record into one mic?

I've been playing double bass professionally (jazz) for about 15 years. I love recording. Here's my thoughts:

If you have total isolation, anything goes. Put up whatever sounds good. You have the freedom to experiment until you get what you want. I usually end up putting a mic somewhere near the bridge, usually a foot or two in front of the bass.

If you do NOT have isolation, I would try suspending the mic in rubber bands between the bridge feet. You obviously need a small, light mic for this. Omnis are good since the proximity effect at this spot could be ugly. I have many more expensive mics, but I usually use an MSH-1 for this task. It sounds good, and is so small and light that it has no muting effect on the bass. I bought 4 just to make shure I always have one for this purpose.

A small condenser or dynamic on a stand would benefit from one of those SE Reflexion shields. I've used one of the little ones with a Beyer M88 and got nice results.

I just made a great recording of my piano trio with three mics. A pair of Avenson STO's on a Jecklin disc with the MSH-1 on the bass for a little extra presence. I think that could be a killer set up for Bluegrass. A main pair with a little extra from a spot mic on the bass.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Funny, "Cousin Jake” Tullock never complained about his bass sound when I recorded Flatt and Scruggs in the 60's; Mitch Jayne never complained when I ran sound for the Dillards; and certainly Roger Bush had nothing but compliments when I ran sound for the Kentucky Colonels every Sunday for several months.

Go figure.
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I certainly did not mean to offend you, but, in my opinion, the bass track on red wing sounded a bit muddy to me. That might have been the exact tone you were looking for, but its not exactly what i'm looking for. we aren't all going to come to an agreement on a "universal bass tone" that works for everyone (thats why they make chocolate and vanilla) nor should we.

i am not questioning or commenting on your past work, just the sample you gave me. I am a big fan of the Kentucky Colonels, and Flatt and Scruggs and obviously you earned someone's respect to have had to opportunity to work with them. Did you do the live sound or studio sound (or both).

Thanks again to all who are giving ideas.
 
pohaku said:
I finally got around to listening to it and it didn't sound muddy to me. Granted it's only an MP3, but what were you using to listen?
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studio monitors, then headphones.

Isn't it common for a Bluegrass band to all record into one mic?
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I would love to know if this is still a widely used technique.

It takes a lot of patience and a great room to make that work. I think the bass is usually still run through a DI to get some added volume out of it.
We dabbled with it, but didn't like our results the first few rounds.
 
I thank you all for the interesting and helpful advice as my GF has taking a desire to play the upright. She plays gtr well and sings pro. Also thanks to Harvey for his participation. BTW Harvey do you know a guy in Austin whoes initials are JT? HE was my instructor 20 or so years ago.
 
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