Applying mixing concepts to a live gig...

  • Thread starter Thread starter JuliánFernández
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JuliánFernández

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Hi guys... I´d been thinking about this lately...

As a musician who is learning a little about recording and mixing, it´s really important to me to sound as good as possible every time I play live.

Now... On my recordings I´d been experimenting with Lo and Hi Pass filters, thinking about how instruments sound in the context of a mix and not by themselves, trying to make tracks not to fight each others, etc. etc.

What happen to all that theory in live gigs? I understand that it´s another evironment, but same concepts should apply, right?

I mean... I know FOH Engineers take care of those things (at least theorically), but don´t we as musicians should tweak our sounds to create a balanced BAND sound on every pub/bar/arena we play? (And that may include changing eq and stuff for every show...)

What do you think?

CheerS! :)
J+
 
There's a yes and no to this.

When I do live mixing, I apply the same broad principles here as when mixing down in the studio, and that includes applying EQ etc so that the sonic landscape is well-defined. However, I tend to create a narrower stereo image than studio mixing, because to go too wide creates problems for listeners who are not locate within the space that defines this image (e.g. if they're are way off to one side).

As far as your own instruments go . . . that's a different story. Anyone who plays an acoustic instrument (e.g. flute, sax or acoustic guitar) has no control over their own EQ in differing venues. What they've got inherent in their instrument is what they're stuck with. I see little value in adjusting the settings of your electric intrument(bass, guitar, keys) according to the venue if you have already developed what is, to you, your optimum sound. Treat this sound as if it were an acoustic instrument. Let whoever runs the PA cope with the deficiencies in the room.
 
I always let the musicians set their own levels and tones based on how they feel they should be. At FOH I decide whether or not I am getting a good enough siganl from them to properly mix the show. If I have to make minor changes that is OK. If I have to get pretty severe with a channel then I let the musician know what is going on and give them a suggestion or two about what changes I could use for FOH. Sometimes they refuse to make changes and I do my best at FOH. Most of the time however if I explain to them that I have already tried to make things work at FOH and that the sound could be better if they were to make certain changes they are usually very happy to do this. For me, getting a musician to both accept and want to make changes is about inspiring trust in my FOH abilities. This means don't run onto to stage and yell at them to turn down, but actually communicating and explaining what problems exist and how they might be solved. I find that if I approach it like this that musicians will almost always want and use my advice and feel good about making the changes.
 
xstatic said:
I always let the musicians set their own levels and tones based on how they feel they should be. At FOH I decide whether or not I am getting a good enough siganl from them to properly mix the show. If I have to make minor changes that is OK. If I have to get pretty severe with a channel then I let the musician know what is going on and give them a suggestion or two about what changes I could use for FOH. Sometimes they refuse to make changes and I do my best at FOH. Most of the time however if I explain to them that I have already tried to make things work at FOH and that the sound could be better if they were to make certain changes they are usually very happy to do this. For me, getting a musician to both accept and want to make changes is about inspiring trust in my FOH abilities. This means don't run onto to stage and yell at them to turn down, but actually communicating and explaining what problems exist and how they might be solved. I find that if I approach it like this that musicians will almost always want and use my advice and feel good about making the changes.
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The last live sound gig I did, the bass player was the loudest thing on stage. He was told but didn't listen. When the singer came out front while the guitar player was singing a tune I showed him the board. Bass channel was off and he still needed to come down 20db. He was almost fired.
 
When you are mixing a live event you need to keep in mind the mixes each musician is hearing. It is ultimately their responsibility to mix their instrument with the other music and it's important that they hear the other instruments too.

Take for example a singer who walks around the stage. If every monitor has only the instrument the musician standing in front of it is playing, the singer will hear a different mix everytime he/she moves. This is going to affect the way the singer sings. You need balance coming from every speaker up there IMHO. If not, let the traveling minstrel know where to shy away from.

How can a guitarist mix what he's playing to the other instruments he can't hear? Can't! If he's too loud compared to the other instruments then he's going to play softer than he normally would.

The musicians have to use there heads too. They can max out the volume in a room real easy like so they need to be aware of what's going on. The more they understand how they change the overall picture the better musicians they will be. If you need to limit their personal amp volumes.

There's little tricks to sneak things to a good mix. You can feed extra volume back to a players monitor if he feels the need to be louder than everyone. It's best to get them to understand on their own but any port in a storm... When someone complains they aren't loud enough try doing nothing at first. I can't tell you how many times that has worked. Just go to the board and make like you're fiddling with knobs and ask if that's better, you'd be surprised.

If time allows let them run through a tune before the gig starts.(there's never enough time) Get up there on stage with them and listen from their perspective. It's another world up there.

If you can, track individual tracks and not the stereo feed.

Oops, am I ranting again? :D
 
Don't forget that almost every live venue will have serious room problems (with the exception of well designed concert halls). The nodes & nulls of standing waves, strong reflections, stage resonances etc. are problems that must be addressed BEFORE you even think about using the mixing principles you would in a studio. If you have the luxury of a sound check, start with the mains OFF. Have the band play and get the monitor mixes happening to their satisfaction, let them find their natural balance, then walk around the room listening for the peculiarities of the room. This will give you a ballpark idea of the E.Q. you will need to use on the mains. (It will also give you an idea of who/what needs to be in the main mix, and who doesn't - often the guitar or bass will be plenty loud using only stage volume - you can mic them, but keep the fader down unless they're being buried in the mix).
Bring the mains up, and have the band play the same song they did in the previous step, start with just vocals in the mains - E.Q. them so they are intelligible over the mix, then bring up each instrument, one at a time, and E.Q. to support the stage sound, not replace it.

Once you've done all that, you can start to "mix it like a record".

Just a few tips from someone who's "been there; done that" for a few decades.


Scott
 
DigitMus said:
Don't forget that almost every live venue will have serious room problems (with the exception of well designed concert halls). The nodes & nulls of standing waves, strong reflections, stage resonances etc. are problems that must be addressed BEFORE you even think about using the mixing principles you would in a studio...
Scott
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What are some of the ways you've dealt with these problems on the fly? Thanx for sharing Scott!
 
Well, that's a hellofa question, ain't it? :) You obviously can't do the proper thing (acoustically treat the room), but you can mitigate the problems a bit. It's all so dependent on the particulars of the situation. Heavy moving blankets can kill reflections, sandbags or other dense, malleable objects can suppress a resonant stage or drum riser. Re-positioning the players and/or speaker cabinets can often help (you don't really want that bass amp in the corner, do you?). If you've got a bad standing wave or resonance at a particular frequency, a compressor with a side chain EQed to that freq. can keep from exciting it too much, and be prepared to use some pretty radical EQ to tame bad problems (parametrics are far better at this task than graphics).

In short, the best thing to have is a good understanding of acoustics, and the causes of the problems - and a small arsenal of tools (EQs Compressors, blankets, etc.). Advancing the gig can be a lifesaver - go see another band there, check the place out when it's empty, too - and speak to whoever's in charge about your concerns.


Scott
 
That's all good stuff there. I especially like the idea of going there ahead of time and checking out the place. sometimes it's the simple stuff that gets overlooked. Thanks man!
 
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