When is enough?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JuliánFernández
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JuliánFernández

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Hi guys... Maybe you can help to figure this out...

I´d been improving the quality of my recordings by trying to learn how to use my (humble) setup... Recording at lower levels and mic placement already made an impact on my results... :)

But I was thinking about this... It´s hard for me to know what is *good enough*... I´m talking about raw tracks; before eq´ing, compressing, etc...

Do you use any kind of reference material to evaluate your raw tracks?

Maybe someone could provide me (us) with high end raw recordings to compare with my stuff, before thinking about mixing or sending a project to mastering...

Thanks!
J.
 
What's good enough? There's always room for improvement, so I guess it depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. I'm satisfied with a track if it's a nice hot signal that doesn't clip, and the performance was good. For me, tracking is the easiest part b/c just about everything I track is DI - vdrums, FL+ezdrummer, POD, bass, keys, etc.. All I do is set the gain and play.
 
When is enough? That....is one of the most difficult questions in recording. At the tracking level, it is relatively easy.......is the signal hot without clipping/distorting, is the signal clean, without excess noise (noise can include everything from the basic noise floor up to and including room noise, sibilance on vocals, etc. etc.) and is the signal relatively even in level. Normally, refence material is used for mixed tracks vs. raw tracks. I don't personally know of anyone who uses reference material for raw mixes.

It really does come down to trusting your ears and the level of perfection you seek. I have found over the years that if I noticer something in tracking that bothers me....and fail to re-track.....it almost always continues to be noticable during mixing. Better to be safe than sorry at the tracking phase....unless the performance is so good that you don't want to risk not capturing it again.
 
over at gearslutz they're always talking about following your gut and trusting your ears, and that's from some of the best in the biz, of course you have to get your ears in good shape but it aint bad advice
 
When the raw tracks, with a rough playback mix works.
:D
 
funny- I was trying to mix a tune on saturday and went to some of my favorite songs via earbud to compare their sounds to my own. It's always a give and take between too sparse and too full of a sound. I was frustrated for a while but had to go with a Bill Laswell piece to feel confident about lowering the guitar levels to let the drums and bass soar. Most people tend to mix the vocals too low as well for various reasons
 
drfringe said:
...I was frustrated for a while but had to go with a Bill Laswell piece to feel confident about lowering the guitar levels to let the drums and bass soar. Most people tend to mix the vocals too low as well for various reasons
Click to expand...
It was interesting how through say mid sixties to eighties or so it wasn't to unusual to have vocals in rock mixed down in with the band, generally still in front but mooshed down in -a time of guitars and solos. Then some of the styles shifted -solos passé,
vocals 'up- more along the lines of where a country' mix would have been all along -but in contrast, never as far as in movie soundtracks.
 
Rokket said:
In other words, all you are adjusting is the fader levels. No effects on any tracks. Then you've got it....
Click to expand...
Yes, when it kicks at least at that basic level -that is a very fine feeling.
The problem I keep seeing, and it just happened to me again, is the tones are good, solid, lots of raw bandwidth to build on, the band and everyone is passing the tracks as keepers, then at the next stage when you really dial it in -that's where the little things rear up.
-Inexperience in the musicians/band
-Moving too fast (for that level of experience
-Me being too focused on the recording mechanical stuff -and my own inexperience for;
a) not catching it
b) relying on said band/musician and co. to see and take care of their own.. :rolleyes: ..and
c) allowing everyone involved to become too saturated during the process- this one also plays- The Time/$$$ Factor.
 
Yeah

Yeah, I guess I'm speaking more about home artists and indie artists, I'm a member of a couple sites that "critique" amateurs, and I'll tell ya, about 1/2 the people are guitarists that get a drum machine and then really bury the vocals to try and mask the quality of the voices. Not really a new trick, but I think you're probably right as far as trends go as well.

I spent most of the 90s going to concerts where you couldn't hear the vocals or the guitar singers all that well due to 1/2 deaf soundmen, buried vocals and crummy sounding venues. Also, nothing new but this whole trend of getting polished frontmen, bass, and better sound is interesting.

I mean, I've heard some great stuff throughout the years and part of it is genre specific issue.

Good points mixsit. I saw John lee Hooker about 15 years ago, and he had a 20 watt amp on stage, played in a little theater, with a tiny pa, but he had so much control and everything sounded great. You could hear his foot tapping and everything. Many ways to skin a cat but well you get my point.:eek:
 
JuliánFernández said:
Maybe someone could provide me (us) with high end raw recordings to compare with my stuff, before thinking about mixing or sending a project to mastering...
Click to expand...

In relation to this, what exactly are you looking for? There's tons of stuff in the evaluation area if you're looking for tracks.

Are you looking for a certain genre? can you expound?
 
drfringe said:
In relation to this, what exactly are you looking for? There's tons of stuff in the evaluation area if you're looking for tracks.

Are you looking for a certain genre? can you expound?
Click to expand...

Well, a well recorded acoustic guitar should translate to (almost) every style, right? The same should apply to a nice Supraphonic or a nice vintage bass Fender DI....

Anyway It´s helpful to read everyone´s opinion... Food for tought, for sure! :)

I mean, it would be GREAT to hear a raw clip of Mr. Colaiuta doing any session...
That´s what I´m talking about...
 
JuliánFernández said:
Well, a well recorded acoustic guitar should translate to (almost) every style, right? The same should apply to a nice Supraphonic or a nice vintage bass Fender DI....

Anyway It´s helpful to read everyone´s opinion... Food for tought, for sure! :)

I mean, it would be GREAT to hear a raw clip of Mr. Colaiuta doing any session...
That´s what I´m talking about...
Click to expand...

well said and a word to the wise, I give you a big nod.

The only thing I'd add is that if you're recording drums, you might want a drum track, midi, same thing- or of course a heavy track, it's nice to hear the layers and see exactly how they got the bass and drums to come shining through and get the vocals on top. Same thing with any style, if you're listening to see how they did stuff- it's a great study.

At a certain point if you've got the music fairy helping it becomes more like painting. Combining textures, color, balance and composition. If you can work with the recording rather than fight it, or try to color rather than hide and mask some parts it becomes an art.
 
mixsit said:
It was interesting how through say mid sixties to eighties or so it wasn't to unusual to have vocals in rock mixed down in with the band, generally still in front but mooshed down in -a time of guitars and solos. Then some of the styles shifted -solos passé,
vocals 'up- more along the lines of where a country' mix would have been all along -but in contrast, never as far as in movie soundtracks.
Click to expand...
My audio tech professor was saying how a lot of people mix down the vocals to hide them because they think their voice is bad or whatever, but because the vocals are buried they really just draw more attention to themselves because the listeners will strain to hear them over everything else. So sing loud and sing proud, no matter what!

As for when it's enough... I think you just sort of get used to what you need over time. You can do an endless amount of tweaking in the box, but I think you'll eventually figure out more about how to get the sounds you want from the get-go so that your life is easier later on. I'm still learning that, but believe me, getting it right at the source makes a world of difference.

One of the things my professor made us do is include reference tracks with our mixes. For instance, what sound are we going for? So if I was listening to my music and thought, hey, that acoustic guitar sound would fit well in my song, I would listen to it and figure out how to get a similar sound.
 
mixsit said:
Yes, when it kicks at least at that basic level -that is a very fine feeling.
The problem I keep seeing, and it just happened to me again, is the tones are good, solid, lots of raw bandwidth to build on, the band and everyone is passing the tracks as keepers, then at the next stage when you really dial it in -that's where the little things rear up.
-Inexperience in the musicians/band
-Moving too fast (for that level of experience
-Me being too focused on the recording mechanical stuff -and my own inexperience for;
a) not catching it
b) relying on said band/musician and co. to see and take care of their own.. :rolleyes: ..and
c) allowing everyone involved to become too saturated during the process- this one also plays- The Time/$$$ Factor.
Click to expand...
That's why I only track myself. If I do a collaberation, I am stingy and won't let my partner/bandmate touch the faders or do any mic placement. If I am collabing via the internet, it's only with guys/gals whom I trust to track it right.

But I know those options are not always available, and if you open yourself to tracking bands looking for a cheap demo, you inevitibly get the headaches.
 
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