Interface upgrade (PCI to firewire or USB)

[thebigcheese]

I've been thinking of upgrading my interface. Right now I have an Aardvark Q10, which is pretty nice, but it gives me problems every now and then, but really I'd like to have something with firewire or USB so that I can hook it up to my laptop for some location recording (for instance, if there's a cool hall I'd like to record in or something). I'd like to spend as little money as possible, but I need something with at least 8 preamps in it (like the Q10). There was a recent topic about this, but I didn't want to steal the thread, so I thought I'd post again. I saw some reviews in EQ about the Line 6 Toneport UX8 and the ART Tubefire 8 and they said that both were at least reasonably good. There's also the Presonus gear. I don't know what chipset Macbook Pros use for firewire, but the Line 6 uses USB, so that wouldn't be an issue. What's the performance difference in USB vs firewire? More importantly, which one of those is going to sound best for the least money (and present me with the least issues)? I figure I could sell the Q10 to help fund the purchase, but ideally I don't want to spend much money... is it even worth it to upgrade, or should I just limit my location options in favor of saving money?

 

[dgatwood]

I've been thinking of upgrading my interface. Right now I have an Aardvark Q10, which is pretty nice, but it gives me problems every now and then, but really I'd like to have something with firewire or USB so that I can hook it up to my laptop for some location recording (for instance, if there's a cool hall I'd like to record in or something). I'd like to spend as little money as possible, but I need something with at least 8 preamps in it (like the Q10).

I wouldn't recommend USB above about two channels. I'm firmly of the opinion that 8 inputs via USB is just asking for trouble, IMHO.

 

[thebigcheese]

I wouldn't recommend USB above about two channels. I'm firmly of the opinion that 8 inputs via USB is just asking for trouble, IMHO.

I know for video at least that firewire is better because it provides better bandwidth (that might not be the right word) when you're using it for constant access, I just wasn't sure if it would be different for audio.

 

[guitar zero]

Get firewire, especially if you need 8 inputs.

 

[elenore19]

Get Firewire. Although I've heard USB 2.0 mixers are even better than firewire. But firewire is a safe bet.

My experience:
I've been using an Alesis Multimix 16 for a couple years now. It's fantastic. Pretty portable, 8 preamps. And I've made some good recordings.
Here's a link:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-MultiMix-16-USB-2.0-16Channel-Mixer?sku=801472

They don't make the firewire version anymore. Just the USB 2.0. Which, like I said, I've heard is better.

I use Cubase, by the way. And it works fantastically.


So I would strongly recommend that product.

There ya go.

-Elliot

 

[dgatwood]

I know for video at least that firewire is better because it provides better bandwidth (that might not be the right word) when you're using it for constant access, I just wasn't sure if it would be different for audio.

Bandwidth isn't the issue. FireWire offloads the work from the CPU. USB in software what FireWire does in hardware. Thus, if the CPU is too busy with something else, you're much more likely to get a glitch with USB. All it takes is one badly written device driver to really wreck things.

 

[thebigcheese]

Oh, so that's what the deal is. That makes sense.

That mixer looks nice. I suppose you don't get to use it as a control surface though, right? It'd be nice to have my audio come back out so I could mix it by hand... Are there any other cheapish options like this?

 

[Shadow_7]

As far as data bandwidth.

USB -> Lowest
Firewire -> Better
PCI -> Best

With usb, you're pretty limited. 4 channels (two in and two out) at 48kHz and 16 bit. If you want higher rates 24/96, you're not likely to get it with a USB device. BUT... There's a USB Audio standard. So you will likely find a driver that works regardless of OS or cpu. But then again, not all devices conform to the standard.

Firewire, is not limited much. 24 channels of 24/96, no problem. Just don't be using other devices like a firewire harddisk at the same time. And there's a quite a few devices with driver issues. In many instances they hit the shelves before their drivers are ready for the public.

PCI has the best bandwidth. So it's more capable. A lot of the higher end stuff will be PCI. Although many will use breakout boxes since the electronics of the desktop causes a lot of interference. Not very portable, but very capable for the most part.

HTH, baring the over generalization.

 

[thebigcheese]

So it sounds like basically in terms of sound quality, stability, etc, I'm really better off just sticking with what I have? On the other hand, I'm curious to know if the TubeFire can be used as a standalone unit. That could make it useful in a live situation if I needed it... has anyone had a chance to use on of those? How are the drivers?

 

[thebigcheese]

Oh, wow... I was just looking at the Alesis io26 today and that thing looks like an amazing deal... I might have to get one.

 

[carlosguardia]

I have a MOTU 8pre and am very happy with the preamps, each channel has a 20dB pad and a 48v phantom switch. For the money I believe it to be the best firewire interface, plus it has ADAT optical ins and outs which is great!

 

[Treeline]

Here's a different approach: Keep the Q 10 interface and build a single purpose Shuttle for it. All prices are from www.newegg.com .

Shuttle SD30G2 w/motherboard = 180.00

Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 Allendale 2.4GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E4600 - Retail = $ 125.00

Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500SB 250GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive (3.5") = $70.00

PLEXTOR 52X CD Burner Black IDE Model PX-240A/SW-BL - Retail = $50.00

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-8500C5 - Retail = $ 90


Hanns·G HW-173DBB Black 17" 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail = $ 150

Used keyboard = $ 10 or free.

Total = $ 675. Add $ 89.00 for Windows XP.

Load the aardvark PCI card and you're in business with a transportable unit.

 

[thebigcheese]

Total = $ 675. Add $ 89.00 for Windows XP.

Eep. That was considerably more than I was looking to spend... I think that if I sell off my current stuff first, I can get the io26 for next to nothing, so as long as it's a quality interface, it seems like a good deal to me.

 

[pipelineaudio]

the IO26 is DICE 2, it might work, but if it doesnt youll be in frustration land

 

[thebigcheese]

What exactly does DICE 2 mean? It seems like pretty much everything is these days, and the manufacturers are quite happy about it. Why are they all adopting it if it's so bad?

Maybe the better question is: what would pipeline do?

 

[MOFO Pro]

You can sell the Q10 too, just look, it's already equipped with an audio input, right on the front!!

 

[pipelineaudio]

What exactly does DICE 2 mean? It seems like pretty much everything is these days, and the manufacturers are quite happy about it. Why are they all adopting it if it's so bad?

I can't speak to their motivations, but it is one of the easiest ways to implement more than 8 channels of I/O into firewire with a ready made solution.

In the real world though, as good as it sounds, apparently AFAIK, ONE company writes the actual drivers for all the devices.

This alone would be bad enough, because that ONE company also makes a soundcard. Just how good do you think your drivers are going to be when they are made by someone with a *vested interest* in seeing your company fail?

But when it comes down to it, that one company's own card with their own drivers is having as many problems as the rest.

Every Dice-2 card out there is a nightmare for tech support

Maybe the better question is: what would pipeline do?

That is one that hits very close to home and something I feel very bad about.

I can't in good conscience reccomend any FW card at this point except one company's and I don't feel its fair in my position to only have one to reccomend, so I won't. It just feels too slimey to me to say "I believe only xME FW interfaces are doing the job at this point"

I'm hoping like hell this will change. I want to reccomend the MOTU stuff, but they have made a serious ball dropping of in the last month or so. See: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=262350&highlight=motu

Now, according to a few respected turnkey DAW builders, the Edirol line of sound cards are working well in firewire with low latency as well, and they are cheap! I haven't tried them myself, but so far tech support on these usually comes down to just saying "are you using the asio driver?" and problem solved, so I give it the remote thumbs up so far.

 

[thebigcheese]

Hmm... I've seen that you do some location recording, what do you use when you do that? I mean, the Q10 is fine for when I have access to my desktop, but it'd be nice if I had something more portable so I could take it with to gigs (my band is still really small time and I expect we'd be playing backyards and such). That's where a firewire interface would be nice. Do you just only use PCI, or do you just do your best to deal with the issues?

 

[pipelineaudio]

Our big mobile rig (takes a trailer to move) uses PCI cards for I/O

This mini mobile, for up to 24 inputs uses the dreaded onboard dell FW card with an RME FF800 and two presonus DIGIMAX F/S's

Here are two mini mobiles at once

1 is a Line6 KB37 doing some DI guitars and editing

The other is running a MOTU 8Pre and a Behringer ADA8k for 16 inputs, tracking drums

Here's a KB37 in a hotel room setup for finishing DI guitars and bass

 

[thebigcheese]

So all your stuff is non-DICE II then? It looks like you mostly use standalone preamps and then go in through a separate interface, correct? I mean, with the exception of the 8pre, obviously. I was really hoping I'd be able to find something a little more affordable than MOTU, though...

P.S. - your setups are pretty badass. I hope to one day be able to afford that kind of stuff...

P.P.S. - frying bacon in a kitchen with two extremely sensitive smoke alarm things is really annoying.