Bridge Pin question

[32-20-Blues]

So, this guy on another forum keeps telling me that I should change the bridge pins on my acoustic from the stock plastic ones to brass or ebony versions. He claims that the change will improve my tone.

I'm sceptical - I figure the saddle is between the ringing string and the bridge pin, and that it will govern tone.

However, I recently read Jerry Donohue insisting that the type of ferrules you have in the back of your Tele will have a huge impact on tone.

Anyway, here's the question - is there a difference in sound between different bridge pin materials? Like I said, i'm seriously dubious.

 

[muttley600]

So, this guy on another forum keeps telling me that I should change the bridge pins on my acoustic from the stock plastic ones to brass or ebony versions. He claims that the change will improve my tone.

I'm sceptical - I figure the saddle is between the ringing string and the bridge pin, and that it will govern tone.

However, I recently read Jerry Donohue insisting that the type of ferrules you have in the back of your Tele will have a huge impact on tone.

Anyway, here's the question - is there a difference in sound between different bridge pin materials? Like I said, i'm seriously dubious.

Bridge pin material will have a small effect on the tone. Whether you can hear it is questionable. The reason is that it's the movement of the whole of the bridge that governs the timbre not just the saddle. Further, even if you could hear the difference who is to say what is better? Some may prefer the sound of one over the other. One thing that does make a difference in my opinion is having bridge pins that are well seated and correctly reamed so they make a good contact with the bridge pin hole and hold the string snugly against the bridge plate. The main benefit of that part of making or setting up has more to do with a balance across the strings rather than an marked improvement or difference in tone. That will also improve the life of the pin, bridge and bridge plate.

As for Mr Donahue, much as I love his playing he is stretching the point on that on. The difference would be even smaller on a solid body because to make a difference to tone you have to significantly alter the mass or stiffness of the main resonating parts of the instruments. Changing string ferrules ain't going to do that. I have never attempted to make a serious assessment of that one though it really isn't worth it..

 

[32-20-Blues]

Thanks Muttley, that clears it up.

And for the record, Jerry Donahue advises standard Fender ferrules on the lower four strings, but custom brass replacements on the B and E. Stops them sounding too shrill, apparently.

 

[muttley600]

Thanks Muttley, that clears it up.

And for the record, Jerry Donahue advises standard Fender ferrules on the lower four strings, but custom brass replacements on the B and E. Stops them sounding too shrill, apparently.

Well he obviously has better ears than I have..

If it works for him though it's good.

 

[Treeline]

In the late 70s there was a whole bunch of alternative materials being experimented with for nut, bridge and saddle materials. Bell brass was the hot setup for a while, partly because it was heavy (and therefore must be "good") and partly, I suspect, because it was easy to machine string compensation into a brass saddle and acoustic guitars were not known for having very sophisticated compensating saddles at the time. Charles Fox was one of the earlier experimenters when he had his building setup and a school here in Vermont. As a player I experimented with carbon fiber and epoxy saddles for years. A friend I played music with had a brass nut on his Grammer dreadnaught. I remember changing all the plastic pins on my '59 Gibson acoustic for ebony, putting Grovers on the headstock, "voicing" the inside (otherwise known as cleaning the dustbunnies out with fine sandpaper) and feeling quite pleased with myself. But most of us had no idea if it would help the tone or not; we just experimented. People like Fox understood because he kept records on everything - he was (is) a data freak and a disciplined experimenter.

Metal adds mass; that can be a good or a bad thing depending on what else is going on with the guitar. I'd try it with a borrowed set of bridge pins just to experiment and see if you like the way it sounds, but don't go spending money thinking it'll make a big difference.

 

[Light]

So, this guy on another forum keeps telling me that I should change the bridge pins on my acoustic from the stock plastic ones to brass or ebony versions. He claims that the change will improve my tone.

I'm sceptical - I figure the saddle is between the ringing string and the bridge pin, and that it will govern tone.

However, I recently read Jerry Donohue insisting that the type of ferrules you have in the back of your Tele will have a huge impact on tone.

Anyway, here's the question - is there a difference in sound between different bridge pin materials? Like I said, i'm seriously dubious.

Muttley took the diplomatic view. I'll give you my honest opinion. The dude is full of shit. You will NEVER hear a difference, period. Anyone who says other wise is either selling them or deluding themselves into thinking they didn't just waste $50 on snake oil. Trust me, they did.

If you think they look cool, great. If you want something that will wear better, fine (though I can't imagine why - I've seen `30's Martin's with original bridge pins that were fine, though that is admittedly an exception), but do NOT expect to hear a difference in the sound. It's not happening.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

In the late 70s there was a whole bunch of alternative materials being experimented with for nut, bridge and saddle materials. Bell brass was the hot setup for a while, partly because it was heavy (and therefore must be "good") and partly, I suspect, because it was easy to machine string compensation into a brass saddle and acoustic guitars were not known for having very sophisticated compensating saddles at the time. Charles Fox was one of the earlier experimenters when he had his building setup and a school here in Vermont. As a player I experimented with carbon fiber and epoxy saddles for years. A friend I played music with had a brass nut on his Grammer dreadnaught. I remember changing all the plastic pins on my '59 Gibson acoustic for ebony, putting Grovers on the headstock, "voicing" the inside (otherwise known as cleaning the dustbunnies out with fine sandpaper) and feeling quite pleased with myself. But most of us had no idea if it would help the tone or not; we just experimented. People like Fox understood because he kept records on everything - he was (is) a data freak and a disciplined experimenter.

Metal adds mass; that can be a good or a bad thing depending on what else is going on with the guitar. I'd try it with a borrowed set of bridge pins just to experiment and see if you like the way it sounds, but don't go spending money thinking it'll make a big difference.

You need to try and separate three things here, nut, saddle, bridge pins. All serve a different function and will act in different ways.

The nut, reflects string energy back down the string and loses some to the neck. The material and what it is made of will have an effect depending on how much it reflects bot ONLY on open strings.

The saddle, ditto but on all fretted notes. Of the three, this is the one you are most likely to hear a difference on. In many cases this will also be a minimal change.

The bridge pins see my comments above.

The whole bridge assembly is essential to an acoustic because it is via the bridge plate, bridge block and saddle that energy is transfered to the top (bracing of the top is more important in many ways). Small changes like bridge pins are negligible at best. Also as I said it is more important to have a good fit so simply swapping them out is not always a good test.

You can do some experimenting if you like no harm at all, but believe me we have done it already. I keep records of everything I try as well, it's in my make up as a luthier and acoustician.