Should I get a pre-amp?

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lackmaster

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I use the E-MU 1820m A/D PCI hardware for recording to disk.

I am pleased with it for all recordings, but I (as a vocalist primarily) always struggle with getting what I would call a great vocal sound (I may just be too critical of my own voice). I'm wondering if I should look towards a hardware pre-amp instead of the one built-in to the 1820m.

My mic is an Audio Technica AT3035.

I'm a rocker, and in my latest recording I'm trying to get more of a Joe Elliot (Def Leppard) vocal sound (lots of effects). I don't think I am getting enough detail, and it sounds too processed/digital and hollow. I'm not coming anywhere close to the Joe Elliot sound.

So, I just would like to know if a hardware preamp would really make that big of a difference compared to the 1820m built-in.

Other stuff I'm using:
Ozone 3 (compression and enhancement)
Antares Autotune
Various reverb VSTs and simple delay.
 
Probably not. You'll get a lot further with the right vocal technique, room accoustics, along with the right compression and/or effects.

Don't get me wrong -- better preamps make a difference - particularly when you're talking about something built-in to your soundcard; in the grand scheme of things, it's always a good idea to use the best possible equip.

But I wouldn't expect to sound any more like Joe Elliot. :D Honestly, if the 80's glam rock is what you're after -- it's not going to require the best possible gear. Most of the stuff used during that particular era was pretty ghastly.

.
 
Joe Elliot's sound has WAY more to do with Mutt Lange than it does with the gear (or Joe Elliot for that matter) - do some research on Mutt Langes Vocal techniques. You can say what you want, but Mutt is amazing. One of the best.
 
may very well have been more of a mixing/outboard gear processing than mic pre's or even Mutt's micing tech( which may/probably have been more of the engineer)
 
jmorris said:
may very well have been more of a mixing/outboard gear processing than mic pre's or even Mutt's micing tech( which may/probably have been more of the engineer)
Click to expand...

Yep, it's how they are mixed, and the way the vocals are layered. The OP should do some research if he wants that sound.....
 
lackmaster said:
I use the E-MU 1820m A/D PCI hardware for recording to disk.

I am pleased with it for all recordings, but I (as a vocalist primarily) always struggle with getting what I would call a great vocal sound (I may just be too critical of my own voice). I'm wondering if I should look towards a hardware pre-amp instead of the one built-in to the 1820m.

My mic is an Audio Technica AT3035.

I'm a rocker, and in my latest recording I'm trying to get more of a Joe Elliot (Def Leppard) vocal sound (lots of effects). I don't think I am getting enough detail, and it sounds too processed/digital and hollow. I'm not coming anywhere close to the Joe Elliot sound.

So, I just would like to know if a hardware preamp would really make that big of a difference compared to the 1820m built-in.

Other stuff I'm using:
Ozone 3 (compression and enhancement)
Antares Autotune
Various reverb VSTs and simple delay.
Click to expand...

Take it from someone who has been down this road. At the end of the day, even if you sing into a U47 running through an API, your voice is STILL going to sound like YOUR voice. Save yourself the hours and money spent that I went through and just concentrate on getting better with what you have. This is HOME RECORDING.COM, not Pros 'R Us..........

That "hollow" sound you refer to could well be the 3035 LDC showing the lack of acoustic treatment in your room. I gave up on condensors for my vocal for that reason and use either an SM7b, SM57 or SM58. They all reject off axis source, including flutter echo in an untreated room, dogs barking, motorcycles, the mockingbird singing outside my window at the moment, etc. Every LDC I ever tried did an excellent job of picking up all of those details that I did not want to hear on my vocal tracks.

Don't get sucked in by the marketing. If it is a hobby, even a passionate one, we don't really need to be spending tons of money on pro mics, preamps, etc.

Put it in a 401k plan instead.......

bilco
 
I don't know, I am sure that all those things have something to do with it, but if you are a vocalist and that is your main thing, then I would invest in at least ONE good preamp. One nice preamp and a good mic, and at least you can eliminate that as something holding you back...

P.S. Not to imply the 3035 is NOT a good mic, I have no first hand experience with one ....
 
bilco said:
That "hollow" sound you refer to could well be the 3035 LDC showing the lack of acoustic treatment in your room. I gave up on condensors for my vocal for that reason and use either an SM7b, SM57 or SM58. They all reject off axis source, including flutter echo in an untreated room, dogs barking, motorcycles, the mockingbird singing outside my window at the moment, etc. Every LDC I ever tried did an excellent job of picking up all of those details that I did not want to hear on my vocal tracks.
Click to expand...
This can't be stated enough... A better microphone can actually hurt the overall vocal quality in a room that's bad enough...

Too many people need to learn this the hard way...
 
When I saw the title, I laughed to myself. My first thought was, if you wanted to pour concrete, wouldn't you need concrete mix? Anyway, I digress.

I totally agree with NL5 on this one. And on quite a few other things, for that matter. The vocal sound from Def Leppard or however it is spelled has everything to do with Lange. Lange and some Shipley, too. You're not going to get that sound without stacking vocals like a mofo, either. And moreover, you'll have to know how to do it right...then mix it right.

That all being said, go for it. You can't learn without trying. Research as much as you can on the recording of Pyromania and such and then just press forward and do the best you can with the equipment you have. A decent pre will do very well for you but you are more of the equation than the pre. But still, you need a respectable pre. You already have a decent mic. And I'm sure the pre's on your EMU are perfectly adequate.
 
It's really hard to tell what someone is up against using this form of communication. There is a reason why people pay all that money for great preamps, and it's possible you are further into the curve than is being presumed. But it's probably more likely that you are, in fact, looking for something that isn't going to come from a better preamp. Think of it this way....that Joe Elliot sound that you're looking for doesn't go away whan you play it on a boom box or other low end playback system, does it? A great preamp can't create it anymore than a poor playback system can take it away.
 
The 1820m pres aren't half bad (it's the interface I currently use), designed by Ted Fletcher. You'd have to spend quite a bit for any sort of upgrade.

And as has been said many times before, the odds are good that money spent elsewhere (acoustic treatment?) will give you more of an improvement to your recorded sound.
 
Robert D said:
It's really hard to tell what someone is up against using this form of communication. There is a reason why people pay all that money for great preamps, and it's possible you are further into the curve than is being presumed. But it's probably more likely that you are, in fact, looking for something that isn't going to come from a better preamp. Think of it this way....that Joe Elliot sound that you're looking for doesn't go away whan you play it on a boom box or other low end playback system, does it? A great preamp can't create it anymore than a poor playback system can take it away.
Click to expand...

Great way to look at it...

As long as you're not in the room--I plan on stealing that and looking smart. :D
 
Can't beat the advice you've received so far. I'm not familiar with Joe Elliot, but a dynamic mic like an inexpensive SM57 might be worth trying on your voice. On bluesy rock stuff my Unidyne III dynamic mic sounds better on my voice than my expensive tube condenser.
 
From my experience a preamp would make very subtle changes to your vocal sound. Things that I would try if I were you:

1. Different Mic Technique. If you are singing 3" from the mic, try 6" then try 12"... try 18". These guys telling you that your problem is your room, may or may not be right. It is kind of like "My car won't run" "Must be bad spark plugs" Could be, but could be something else. Try different mic placements first before you start buying a bunch of crappy foam.

2. Different Room. If you are in your basement, drag a mic up stairs. If you are in your bedroom, try it out in the hall. Listen really hard to the differences and they should give you some clues about whether it really is your room.

3. Different Mic. My first choice would be a used SM7. Somewhere around $250. Great rock vocal mic. Some of the room problems (if they exist) should be minimized with a mic like this.

4. Aggressive Compressor. This is not the end all be all super miracle silver bullet solution, but for me, specifically with a dynamic mic (like an SM7 or and RE20) I have really liked the sound that I can get if I insert a FMR RNLA into my mic pre. For me it fills out the sound and rounds it out a bit too.

Ultimately like the guy said above, your voice will always sound like your voice, but I am guessing you know that. Some of the other suggestions might be right, but really experimentation is the key.

Start with the gear you have and making small (and larger) changes. Inspect the results. In many cases we are working with a bunch of variables.

I am sure you will get it. Ultimately I think you would love an SM7 though. They are really great mics and it is rare that someone gets one and does not like it.
 
I have heard it recommended before that a good idea is to go schedule a couple of hours in a good studio (during slower hours to get a better rate) and have the engineer hook you up with different mic/preamp combos to see what sounds good on your voice. If I were a singer I would certainly consider taking this advice.
 
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