Understanding The Basics, Question

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Boston=Awesome

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I've been recording digitally now for a few years. It's dandy, I use and old school iBook, tascam us122 and a couple of mics.

I'm going to start recording other people though, and since I don't truly understand or have experience with analog interfaces or mixers, hopefully you dudes can help out my level of understanding.

I'm looking to purchase a 12 channel mixer with 1/4 '' stereo outs and xlr outs. Is each of those 12 channels considered a track? If so, when those are mixed out to the xlr or stereo outs, do they become essentially 2 tracks?

That is how I 'think' it works. However, my goal is to be able to record, mix and master albums. I suppose I don't know where to begin in terms of equipment. Thanks in advance.

I suppose a bit more info might help: I want to be able to record every from the mixer to a format, and then take that to further mixing and finally mastering. If I have 12 channels combining into 2 xlr/stereo outs, then shouldn't I be recording to a 2 track device? Does it do any good to record to a 8 track recording device, or can it even be done? Thanks, I know my confusion is probably hideous.

G.R.
 
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Hey Boston = Awesome, I like your marathons and have run two of them so far. Now that right there is living.

Your question really has no simple answer. What the 12 channel board can do depends on the board itself. Some boards have outputs for each channel, some don't. Some have inserts on each channel that are for external effects that can be used as outputs if you plug in your jack halfway, some don't.

If you want to record separate channels and mix down at a later date then you want a board that has separate outputs for each channel.

Something you want to keep in mind are the quality of the pre's on the board. In addition to all the channels you might want to invest in a couple realy good preamplifiers for the vocal mics.

The other part of the equation is the actual recording device you are going to record to. If you use digital ,then you want to have a soundcard that has as many inputs as tracks that you want to record at one time. Of course the more tracks you want to record simultaneously the better the processor needs to be in your computer.

Some people like to export the tracks back out of the computer and mix with the board. If you want to do that then make sure the soundcard you get also has enough outputs to do that.

When buying you soundcard a big consideration is how good the converters are. Look around, shop, look somemore because you don't want to buy something today and find it obsolete for what you buy tomorrow.

Hey, welcome to the BBS. I won't make this years marathon but hope to be there next year!
 
Thanks for the response!

NY MorningStar:

Cool, that does shed some light on the whole essence of the equipment. Basically, it can be built to any specification as long as budget affords it seems.

The idea in my head is to be able to record 8 - 12 tracks(mics instruments) simultaneously onto an analog format, whether it be cassette or reeled is only a matter of availability to me at this point. With those tracks, I'd then like to send them from the 8-12 track to the master, which could be 2 glorious tracks. Is this in sync with the basic formula for recording, and if so, what kind of equipment would fit it?

I'm pretty much in the dark at the moment, but thanks for the guiding light. ON a personal note, I really like walking long distances. Marathons are wild dude, but I'm glad you enjoy running them, more power to you.

G.R.
 
Are you trying to avoid recording to a computer? I might be misreading but it sounds like you're looking to specifically get it to analog rather than a computer on the tracking/printing.

Mainly I ask because if you don't mind recording to a computer your options might open up a bit more.
 
Good Question

I already have the computer I use for recording, so I'm not opposed to using it at all for future recordings, but I'd like to use it in conjunction with analog equipment, which I know little to nothing about.

Thanks for the response Almy!
 
There are so many options. And of course your budget will help narrow it down. But as an example, I use an analog firewire mixer that also has digital converters. So I can record individual tracks from the analog mixer to my computer.
 
I see, well, I've budgeted myself about 4,000 dollars for the sum total of the equipment I am planning to purchase. That being said, I want this to cover a good mixer, preferably something like AH Mix Wizard 3, a few more mics, and finally a recording and mastering platform. I've checked out the prices of used reel to reel and mastering tape machines, and it seems like it can be done for the budget.

I suppose the digital interface doesn't worry me much because I've experience with it over the years. As well, I'd be happy with an 8 track cassette machine, I'm just trying to cover both platforms.

In part this will satisfy some aspect of my morbid curiosity with audio, hopefully.

The mixer I'm looking at now is the Allen Heath Mixwizard 3.
 
I'm not saying they don't exist but I've never seen an 8 track cassette recorder that would accomodate 8 separate tracks onto a cassette tape. I think the physical size of a cassette tape won't fit the bandwidth of 8 tracks.

The 4 tracks cassette tapes can get up to 10 tracks by bouncing the tracks down but can't accomodate more than 4 tracks simultaneously.

If you want 8 tracks on tape for future mixing and processing then you want to look at reel to reel.
 
NYMorningstar said:
I'm not saying they don't exist but I've never seen an 8 track cassette recorder that would accomodate 8 separate tracks onto a cassette tape. I think the physical size of a cassette tape won't fit the bandwidth of 8 tracks.

The 4 tracks cassette tapes can get up to 10 tracks by bouncing the tracks down but can't accomodate more than 4 tracks simultaneously.

If you want 8 tracks on tape for future mixing and processing then you want to look at reel to reel.
Click to expand...

Tascam 488 MkI and MKII

Tascam 688

Yamaha MT8X are 3 multitrack cassette recorders that offer 8 tracks on a casette.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
 
Boston=Awesome said:
I see, well, I've budgeted myself about 4,000 dollars for the sum total of the equipment I am planning to purchase. That being said, I want this to cover a good mixer, preferably something like AH Mix Wizard 3, a few more mics, and finally a recording and mastering platform. I've checked out the prices of used reel to reel and mastering tape machines, and it seems like it can be done for the budget.

I suppose the digital interface doesn't worry me much because I've experience with it over the years. As well, I'd be happy with an 8 track cassette machine, I'm just trying to cover both platforms.

In part this will satisfy some aspect of my morbid curiosity with audio, hopefully.

The mixer I'm looking at now is the Allen Heath Mixwizard 3.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight. You want to record on analog, then export to your computer for mastering and tweaking, righ?
 
TeyshaBlue said:
Tascam 488 MkI and MKII

Tascam 688

Yamaha MT8X are 3 multitrack cassette recorders that offer 8 tracks on a casette.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Thanks TeyshaBlue, I wasn't aware of those babies.

Looking at the review on the 488 and the yamaha 8 track I did see that you have to mix with that recorder though because they don't have the capability of exporting the 8 tracks.

What about the 688 and are there problems with squeezing all those tracks onto such a thin tape?
 
NYMorningstar said:
Thanks TeyshaBlue, I wasn't aware of those babies.

Looking at the review on the 488 and the yamaha 8 track I did see that you have to mix with that recorder though because they don't have the capability of exporting the 8 tracks.

What about the 688 and are there problems with squeezing all those tracks onto such a thin tape?
Click to expand...

There are always compromises, but for what it was, the 688 was an amazing machine. It's a very solid home recorder and the pres are pretty decent.

You tell me...I recorded this on a 688...

 
TeyshaBlue said:
There are always compromises, but for what it was, the 688 was an amazing machine. It's a very solid home recorder and the pres are pretty decent.

You tell me...I recorded this on a 688...

Click to expand...
Won't be in the studio till tomorrow so I'll listen then.

What I meant was can you export the 8 tracks with the 688?
 
Vader, hehe

Cool recording man! And thanks for the response.

I'm still a newbie, hence the forum, but my plan is to export the tracks to digital and analog formats. That being said, I know how to do the digital stuff for the most part, but the analog stuff, not so much.

It seems easier to find tape machines rather than reel to reels, but I'd love a reel setup too. But yes basically I'm looking for something to accommodate the mixer, and hopefully sound good too. Then I'd like to export that to my computer, but as well, and this part I don't understand whatsoever, taking the tracks, mixing them down and mastering them. I just want to know what equipment I'd need to achieve the analog aspect of it.

So far:

Allen Heath Mixwiz 3
8 Track Tape or Reel with 8 Outs
Mixing/Mastering Device????

Thanks for all this info, it's truly enlightening!
 
Boston=Awesome said:
So far:

Allen Heath Mixwiz 3
8 Track Tape or Reel with 8 Outs
Mixing/Mastering Device????

Thanks for all this info, it's truly enlightening!
Click to expand...
The Allen Heath Mixwiz 3 is your mixing device. You can track everything with it, exporting the tracks to the tape recorder. When tracking, you can utilize the aux channels to mix down some of the channels to the 8 tracks you will be exporting, e.g. if you mix down 6 drum mics to one aux channel you can export them all to one track on the tape recorder.

When tracking with this mixer you can also add effects either inserting them into individual channels, aux channels or your master channel. Keep in mind that once you add an effect it is there to stay so you might want to track things dry. You can always add effects later on.

Everything depends on what the music calls for. You might find you need to use a compressor, noise gate or other tools when tracking.

After you get everything down to 8 tracks on the tape, you can then export them back to 8 channels in the mixer, adding your effects and mixing them down to stereo. That stereo file you can either send to an analog 1/2 inch or 1 inch tape machine(a VCR recorder would work) or you can send this to your computer for final mastering.

An option to the above is to export all the tracks to your computer and mix in the box or you could mix with a machine like the 688.

TeyshaBlue, very nice job. After reading all the internet hype on the 688, I was thinking ahead of listening that it was going to sound thin. That turned out to be not the case, it sounds great, thanks for the listen.
 
Sweet

Thank you for such succinct and clear advice Morning, the only bit I don't understand is how the auxiliary scenario you gave me with the drums works, other than that, wow, I couldn't ask for more.

Is VHS suitable for making actual masters? That'd be bad ass! Hmm, well, it's an option to consider at least. =)

As well, does direct out translate to "not EQed" out? Or is it simply unmixed by the master channels? Thanks guys! Hope you both have an awesome weekend.

G.R.
 
From reel mixing down to high bias tape

NYMorningstar said:
I'm not saying they don't exist but I've never seen an 8 track cassette recorder that would accomodate 8 separate tracks onto a cassette tape. I think the physical size of a cassette tape won't fit the bandwidth of 8 tracks.

The 4 tracks cassette tapes can get up to 10 tracks by bouncing the tracks down but can't accomodate more than 4 tracks simultaneously.

If you want 8 tracks on tape for future mixing and processing then you want to look at reel to reel.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I have in mind to do, recording in a Tascam 388 and mixdown into a Marantz cassette recorder. What would happened if I do this?
 
My advice would be to continue to record, and mix on the computer. But when done, record the final mix down to Tape. Basically run a hybrid set up, and instead of recording to directly to tape, you are just recording the raw takes to the computer. Then at the end dumping the final 2tracks (or stereo mix) to tape. This would allow you to record the most amount of tracks, and still end on tape. While there are some bonuses to recording 100% on tape like having that +5db past 0db you may be able to push the tape depending on what tape you use. Or the natural compression that tape can sometimes provide. I personally don't think 100% analog is the best way to go. I also think 100% digital isn't the way to go either.

Evolution is found through diversity, and adversity.


Just my opinion
 
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