T
thenightsalive
New member
I am always wondering if i can get better sounds with a bunch of different mics for different projects.
What mics do you prefer.
What mics do you prefer.
D
Daisy
Banned
I have only a very limited few mics that I prefer for drums.
Namely dynamics and/or condensers.
And ribbons.
But just those three. Anything outside of dynamics, condensers or ribbons ... I will generally take a pass on.
.
Namely dynamics and/or condensers.
And ribbons.
But just those three. Anything outside of dynamics, condensers or ribbons ... I will generally take a pass on.
.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Supercreep
Lizard People
Alright, I'll play.
What kind of drums? In what condition?
What kind of music?
What is the recording space like, and is it well-treated?
What is the rest of the recording chain like?
How many channels do you require?
What is your budget?
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
For a moment, I thought you said piezos and I started to ask how you kept them from self-destructing under the stress... but you said PZMs, which are just omni condensers mounted on a plate....
M
musikman316
New member
Kick - I prefer the Audix D6 for kick, I used a Beta 52 for years, but switched last year.
Toms - Shure Beta 98s, I can get great sounds every time, amazing rejection qualities.
Snare - SM57
Overheads - Stereo pair of Rode NT-1s, ORTF, centered above drummers head
I don't mic hi-hats. So, that's what I use, doesn't mean it will work for you, but you did ask.
Josh
Toms - Shure Beta 98s, I can get great sounds every time, amazing rejection qualities.
Snare - SM57
Overheads - Stereo pair of Rode NT-1s, ORTF, centered above drummers head
I don't mic hi-hats. So, that's what I use, doesn't mean it will work for you, but you did ask.
Josh
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yo Thenights alive! Welcome to the board! The good ol' boys are busting your balls because you have asked a small question with a big answer. I will try to give you a general overview.
Over the years, a whole lot of systems have been used. As the years have gone on, the trend has been to use more and more mics, which means more and more channels. The minimalists, which includes me, believe that 4-6 mics are usually enough. Some old timers actually used 1, 2, or 3, but that is *really* old time.
Generally, the minimum set involves 2 overhead mics, one on kick, and one on snare. As mics are added, you get dedicated mics for highhat, floor toms, rack toms, and in extreme cases, right down to the cowbell. In the most extreme heavy metal setups, they have a mic for every crash, ride, and china. For a beginner, I would recommend 4 mics to start, and you can add mics as mics, channels, mic stands, cables, and space (money) become available. It also depends on the kind of music you are recording. Generally the heavier the sound, the more mics people use. The rest of this will mostly concern itself with 4 mics. You can get more complicated as you go. At the end, I'll talk about specific mics in various price ranges.
The majority of your sound will come from the overheads, which are critical. You will then add kick and snare to bring them out in the mix, according to your taste. Usually the overheads will be identical or very similar mics, panned left and right, as a stereo pair. They will also go into 2 identical (if possible) preamp channels. If you only have a couple of good channels, and a bunch of cheap ones, use the good ones for the overheads. They can be arranged as a coincedent (X-Y) pair, as an ORTF pair, or as a spaced pair. Do a search on these stereo mic'ing techniques, and you will find lots of stuff.
Snare- This is usually a single dynamic mic near the rim, angled down toward the center of the bottom snares. Some people use a second mic facing up from the bottom, with the phase reversed, especially if the floor is soft (carpeted), and is sucking up the sound from the snares. Often, for this reason, a drum platform is used, to reflect sound from the toms, kick, and snare back up to the mic array on purpose. Snare will usually, but not always, be panned pretty much to center.
Kick- Usually a dedicated mic is used here, one that reproduces low frequencies well and can take high sound pressure levels (SPL's). It is usually a dynamic, and can be placed just off the center of the outside head, in or near a hole cut in the outside head on purpose, or inside the kick just off where the beater strikes the inside head, depending on the sound you are looking for. If two kicks are used, you really need 2 mics, but if a double pedal is used on one kick, you can usually find a good spot for a single mic equidistant from the two beaters. Kick is also usually panned to center.
Ambient mics (room mics) - Some times a condenser is added to the array, either at the end of a tunnel built out from the front of the kick drum (not really a room mic, it augments the kick with some natural delay) or several feet from the kit. This picks up natural room reflections and augments the overheads, picking up the whole kit from a different angle.
Ok, now for some recommendations on specific mics. What follows is just my opinion, and everybody has one. First, I would stay away from most drum mic kits, which are designed to give you lots of cool-looking mics that suck. Note that for every mic mentioned here, there are a hundred perfectly good ones I didn't mention. Everybody has favorites, and there are a hell of a lot of ways to skin this cat. I personally hate rim-mount mic clips, which transfer rimshots and rumble really well, and give drummers with poor control many chances to smack your mics. Get one or two serious heavy duty mic stands for your overheads, a lighter duty boom, heavily weighted at the base, for the snare, and a good heavy mini-boom for the kick. For the heavy duty stand(s), try-
http://www.musician.com/product/OnStage-Stands-SB96-Studio-Boom-Microphone-Stand?sku=452082
Overheads- Most folks favor a pair of condensers for this:
Wicked cheap- Do a search on Naiant on this board. There are people here who know lots more about these mics than I do, but they swear by them. Behringer (yes, Behringer) ECM-8000.
Cheap- MXL603/604, Oktava MC012, Studio Projects C-4, Rode NT-5
Mid Priced- AKG C451, Shure SM81
To die for: Check Josephson C42, Neuman KM84 (discontinued)/KM184, Schoeps CM6, Earthworks (several models- what those Behringers wish they were)
Snare- The good news here is most people use cheap mics for this because they work-
Pretty damn cheap- Shure SM57 (don't try to go for a cheaper substitute-just do it. It's been a standard for years, and has many other uses, especially electric guitar cabs), My favorite-AKG D770. There are bizzillions of other basic stage vocal dynamics that are good for this, including Audix, Sennheiser e835, Electrovice (EV), and many others
More expensive alternative-Shure SM7b, which is also good for many other things, Sennheiser MD421 or MD441. These are all multi-purpose bad-ass dynamics with hundreds of uses. MD421 is my first choice for snare in most cases.
Kick- This is where I would spend a little money, because good ones are about $200, and are generally better than the cheapies. Yeah, I know the Nady's look good- on paper. I wouldn't do it.
cheap- CAD KBM412, AKG D110, Shure PG52
mid priced- Shure Beta52, Sennheiser e902, Audix D6, Electrovoice ND868, AKG D112. I like the D112 for mellow jazz, classic rock, blues, and it rocks on standup bass. I like the D6 for metal, alternative, wherever you want some "crack" in your kick.
To die for- Elecrovoice RE20- Great on kick, but also on tons of other stuff. Another badass top-of-the-line dynamic. Kick is only one of it's many uses.
Honorable mention: AKG C2000B, C414 (any of them). The first one is cheap, the second a lot more pricey. These are multi-purpose condensers that I have found very useful on toms, congas, djembe, as room mics, etc. If you aren't picking something up, sticking one of those wherever you are not picking it up will help. Oddly enough, the C2000B is AKG's top recommended mic for toms, even over the much more expensive C414, and I have found myself in agreement with the AKG techs. Who would've thunk?
Addendum- a note on ribbon mics. There are 2 basic types- cheap Chinese mics, rapidly becoming popular with home rec'ers, and wicked pricey- AEA, RCA, and Royer come to mind. My experience with these on drums is nil, so I don't have much to say, except that lots of people on this board believe the newer less expensive versions have many practical uses on drums. Hopefully somebody who has used them for drums can tell you more. If anybody wants to send me a pair of Royers, I assure you I'll check them out- (in my dreams). Hope this helps-Richie
Over the years, a whole lot of systems have been used. As the years have gone on, the trend has been to use more and more mics, which means more and more channels. The minimalists, which includes me, believe that 4-6 mics are usually enough. Some old timers actually used 1, 2, or 3, but that is *really* old time.
Generally, the minimum set involves 2 overhead mics, one on kick, and one on snare. As mics are added, you get dedicated mics for highhat, floor toms, rack toms, and in extreme cases, right down to the cowbell. In the most extreme heavy metal setups, they have a mic for every crash, ride, and china. For a beginner, I would recommend 4 mics to start, and you can add mics as mics, channels, mic stands, cables, and space (money) become available. It also depends on the kind of music you are recording. Generally the heavier the sound, the more mics people use. The rest of this will mostly concern itself with 4 mics. You can get more complicated as you go. At the end, I'll talk about specific mics in various price ranges.
The majority of your sound will come from the overheads, which are critical. You will then add kick and snare to bring them out in the mix, according to your taste. Usually the overheads will be identical or very similar mics, panned left and right, as a stereo pair. They will also go into 2 identical (if possible) preamp channels. If you only have a couple of good channels, and a bunch of cheap ones, use the good ones for the overheads. They can be arranged as a coincedent (X-Y) pair, as an ORTF pair, or as a spaced pair. Do a search on these stereo mic'ing techniques, and you will find lots of stuff.
Snare- This is usually a single dynamic mic near the rim, angled down toward the center of the bottom snares. Some people use a second mic facing up from the bottom, with the phase reversed, especially if the floor is soft (carpeted), and is sucking up the sound from the snares. Often, for this reason, a drum platform is used, to reflect sound from the toms, kick, and snare back up to the mic array on purpose. Snare will usually, but not always, be panned pretty much to center.
Kick- Usually a dedicated mic is used here, one that reproduces low frequencies well and can take high sound pressure levels (SPL's). It is usually a dynamic, and can be placed just off the center of the outside head, in or near a hole cut in the outside head on purpose, or inside the kick just off where the beater strikes the inside head, depending on the sound you are looking for. If two kicks are used, you really need 2 mics, but if a double pedal is used on one kick, you can usually find a good spot for a single mic equidistant from the two beaters. Kick is also usually panned to center.
Ambient mics (room mics) - Some times a condenser is added to the array, either at the end of a tunnel built out from the front of the kick drum (not really a room mic, it augments the kick with some natural delay) or several feet from the kit. This picks up natural room reflections and augments the overheads, picking up the whole kit from a different angle.
Ok, now for some recommendations on specific mics. What follows is just my opinion, and everybody has one. First, I would stay away from most drum mic kits, which are designed to give you lots of cool-looking mics that suck. Note that for every mic mentioned here, there are a hundred perfectly good ones I didn't mention. Everybody has favorites, and there are a hell of a lot of ways to skin this cat. I personally hate rim-mount mic clips, which transfer rimshots and rumble really well, and give drummers with poor control many chances to smack your mics. Get one or two serious heavy duty mic stands for your overheads, a lighter duty boom, heavily weighted at the base, for the snare, and a good heavy mini-boom for the kick. For the heavy duty stand(s), try-
http://www.musician.com/product/OnStage-Stands-SB96-Studio-Boom-Microphone-Stand?sku=452082
Overheads- Most folks favor a pair of condensers for this:
Wicked cheap- Do a search on Naiant on this board. There are people here who know lots more about these mics than I do, but they swear by them. Behringer (yes, Behringer) ECM-8000.
Cheap- MXL603/604, Oktava MC012, Studio Projects C-4, Rode NT-5
Mid Priced- AKG C451, Shure SM81
To die for: Check Josephson C42, Neuman KM84 (discontinued)/KM184, Schoeps CM6, Earthworks (several models- what those Behringers wish they were)
Snare- The good news here is most people use cheap mics for this because they work-
Pretty damn cheap- Shure SM57 (don't try to go for a cheaper substitute-just do it. It's been a standard for years, and has many other uses, especially electric guitar cabs), My favorite-AKG D770. There are bizzillions of other basic stage vocal dynamics that are good for this, including Audix, Sennheiser e835, Electrovice (EV), and many others
More expensive alternative-Shure SM7b, which is also good for many other things, Sennheiser MD421 or MD441. These are all multi-purpose bad-ass dynamics with hundreds of uses. MD421 is my first choice for snare in most cases.
Kick- This is where I would spend a little money, because good ones are about $200, and are generally better than the cheapies. Yeah, I know the Nady's look good- on paper. I wouldn't do it.
cheap- CAD KBM412, AKG D110, Shure PG52
mid priced- Shure Beta52, Sennheiser e902, Audix D6, Electrovoice ND868, AKG D112. I like the D112 for mellow jazz, classic rock, blues, and it rocks on standup bass. I like the D6 for metal, alternative, wherever you want some "crack" in your kick.
To die for- Elecrovoice RE20- Great on kick, but also on tons of other stuff. Another badass top-of-the-line dynamic. Kick is only one of it's many uses.
Honorable mention: AKG C2000B, C414 (any of them). The first one is cheap, the second a lot more pricey. These are multi-purpose condensers that I have found very useful on toms, congas, djembe, as room mics, etc. If you aren't picking something up, sticking one of those wherever you are not picking it up will help. Oddly enough, the C2000B is AKG's top recommended mic for toms, even over the much more expensive C414, and I have found myself in agreement with the AKG techs. Who would've thunk?
Addendum- a note on ribbon mics. There are 2 basic types- cheap Chinese mics, rapidly becoming popular with home rec'ers, and wicked pricey- AEA, RCA, and Royer come to mind. My experience with these on drums is nil, so I don't have much to say, except that lots of people on this board believe the newer less expensive versions have many practical uses on drums. Hopefully somebody who has used them for drums can tell you more. If anybody wants to send me a pair of Royers, I assure you I'll check them out- (in my dreams). Hope this helps-Richie
Last edited:
J
JuliánFernández
2&4
Richard, thanks for such a extended answer! I know many guys are gonna dig it! 
M
MadHatterTCM
Eternally Striving
That was definitely a rad post for people needing some good info.
My set up in most situations (mic types and how many depends greatly on what I'm recording)
Kick - Audix D6 in the hole a few inches deep. 57 on the beater side (2 mics total)
Snare - SM57 and a small diaphram condensor (neumann km184 or AKG 451) on top
AKG 414 or Senn e609 on the bottom.
Toms - Senn e604's
Hats - typically a AKG 451
Ride - same
414's as over heads
and different large diaphrams for room mics
My set up in most situations (mic types and how many depends greatly on what I'm recording)
Kick - Audix D6 in the hole a few inches deep. 57 on the beater side (2 mics total)
Snare - SM57 and a small diaphram condensor (neumann km184 or AKG 451) on top
AKG 414 or Senn e609 on the bottom.
Toms - Senn e604's
Hats - typically a AKG 451
Ride - same
414's as over heads
and different large diaphrams for room mics
R
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Thanks for everyone's kind words. I'm sorry there's no real way to answer positive feedback comments other than here. Madhatter's post reminded me that some large diaphragm condensers have been used with great success as overheads, particularly C414, which has been a studio standard for years. I'd do it too, but I only own one. I have used a pair of C2000B's with good effect, but that's really a small diaphragm mic.
I tend to just tear off on some big general answer to what looks like a simple question- "How do you record drums, anyway?" That's the real question I read into the guy's post. Sometimes we get real tunnel visioned, and home recording becomes like the blind men and the elephant. We answer the little nit-picking questions with tons of detail, but we tend to forget that if you don't know how a drum kit is mic'd up, all that detail doesn't do a damned thing except confuse you. And- once you have a grasp of the basics, most of the rest of it you can figure out on your own. I try to remember every day that not everybody knows the basics, and you can't build a house on sand. Thanks again, guys.-Richie
I tend to just tear off on some big general answer to what looks like a simple question- "How do you record drums, anyway?" That's the real question I read into the guy's post. Sometimes we get real tunnel visioned, and home recording becomes like the blind men and the elephant. We answer the little nit-picking questions with tons of detail, but we tend to forget that if you don't know how a drum kit is mic'd up, all that detail doesn't do a damned thing except confuse you. And- once you have a grasp of the basics, most of the rest of it you can figure out on your own. I try to remember every day that not everybody knows the basics, and you can't build a house on sand. Thanks again, guys.-Richie
I
isfahani
Disciple of Wong Jing
PZM, Condenser or Dynamic, if it says Radio Shack, I'll use it.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
I have a Jeff Porcaro video where he was using Ela M 251's on all 4 toms and 2 for the overheads. That's $108,000 in mics by today's prices.
T
tomteriffic
New member
Just a bottomfeeder addendum on PZM's. The good ol' Radio Shack ones they don't make anymore can be improved considerably by simply adding an XLR connector (there's three wires in the cable and it doesn't take too much to figure out what's what, as long as you're consistent from mike to mike). The second thing you can do is find the Energizer camera batteries that are 6 volt and exactly half the size of a double A battery. If memory serves there's a 544 in the battery number. Stuff a couple of those int he AA battery holder and you'll get 12 volts powering the thing, which does wonders for the low end and S/N
I taped a couple to the ceiling above a nice vintage maple Ludwig kit, along with an SM 57 and an RE-20 in the places you'd expect them and got some great jazz/classic rock tones. Riding those two PZM's for the tom fills at mix time got me all I needed.
OH, almost forgot.... The Studio Projects B-1's are great as overheads (they get the toms better than most) for not a lot of bucks and can fill a number of other uses as well.
I taped a couple to the ceiling above a nice vintage maple Ludwig kit, along with an SM 57 and an RE-20 in the places you'd expect them and got some great jazz/classic rock tones. Riding those two PZM's for the tom fills at mix time got me all I needed.
OH, almost forgot.... The Studio Projects B-1's are great as overheads (they get the toms better than most) for not a lot of bucks and can fill a number of other uses as well.
M
musikman316
New member
For those of you looking for a Neumann KM-84, Mercenary is now selling the KM-69, their remake of the classic KM-84. $950.00 single/$1,800.00 pair.
http://www.mercenary.com/mamfgkm69.html
Josh
http://www.mercenary.com/mamfgkm69.html
Josh
J
JWR1
New member
Assuming this is for a home studio, I think the best value/performance is:
AKG D112 for Kicks (sounds good on bass speaker too)
SM57 Snare top
Audix D3 out of phase (soulds good on guit)
SM57 all toms
AKG C1000 on Hat, Ride, and O/H
Best performance (personal opinion)
EV RE20 Kicks
SM57 Snare
Sennheiser MD421 All toms
AKG 414 Hat, ride, and OH
you could get a million answers for this question
AKG D112 for Kicks (sounds good on bass speaker too)
SM57 Snare top
Audix D3 out of phase (soulds good on guit)
SM57 all toms
AKG C1000 on Hat, Ride, and O/H
Best performance (personal opinion)
EV RE20 Kicks
SM57 Snare
Sennheiser MD421 All toms
AKG 414 Hat, ride, and OH
you could get a million answers for this question
bubbagump
New member
I find the drums, the room, and the player make the biggest difference over what mics are used. You can use damn near any dynamic for close micing and any condensor for OHs so long as those three things are done well.