Making source sound further away w/ reverb

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Das Poop

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Hey guys!

I wanted to see if you guys had tips on how to use reverb to make the source sound further away. Most of the tweaks I do seem to just make it sound like the source is in various sizes of rooms, but I have a hard time making it sound like the source is actually further away. What are the key attributes to attempt to do this with? Predelay? Something else?

The obvious thing to do is track from a distance, but this isn't always good when working in a space without much character (like my studio ;))
 
try using some EQ...taking out the low and high end.... think about what a sound will sound like far away.. you won't get as many details in the high frequencies or low frequencies...also, think about the kind of reverbs you're using...do they sound like a room, or do they sound like something that could be a long ways away. But yeah...EQ will help... since you don't hear things in full detail that are far away.
 
Das Poop said:
I wanted to see if you guys had tips on how to use reverb to make the source sound further away. Most of the tweaks I do seem to just make it sound like the source is in various sizes of rooms, but I have a hard time making it sound like the source is actually further away. What are the key attributes to attempt to do this with? Predelay? Something else?
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Like Terra said, pulling back the EQ on the edges, but especially on the high end above 3-4k. The higher the frequency in nature, the more it tends to dissipate with distance. A nice smooth roll off starting somewhere around 3k is often a good setting to start with.

Then, don't forget overall volume; that unless a source is *really* loud, like a thunderclap, it will tend to drop in volume with distance. Pull back some on the track fader.

There is an interesting relationship between volume and reverb; *in general* (there are alwyas exceptions), the quieter the source because of distance, the less verb you'll need; often at quiet volumes, if you can consciously notice the verb, you may already have just a tad too much. OTOH, a source that is distant but loud often demands a wetter reverb mix.

Some pre-delay or even a bit of long delay echo or bounce can help, depending on just what kind of environment sound you're looking for, but I'd personally (YMMV) get the main volume and verb mix dialed in first, and then decide from there if/how to toss in delay. What can be tricky there is getting the delay to both give the right distance effect *and* fit properly with the song tempo at the same time.

IMHO, YMMV, Parental discretion advised, etc.

G.
 
I never had luck using EQ. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and accept the room sound you get. I've kind of learned how to "mask" that nasty room sound using a reverb plugin, so it still sounds further away but has a nicer sound. If you do it wrong, it will just sound like 2 different rooms.

Maybe if I get some time I can post a clip.
 
Das Poop said:
...The obvious thing to do is track from a distance, but this isn't always good when working in a space without much character (like my studio ;))
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Can you give us an idea of the context -instruments/depth in a mix, a sound image in an 'open space?
You're on the right path with the idea of tracking distance. Close' is a different size and perspective.
 
Ok, taken directly from William Moylan's book "Understanding and Crafting the Mix":

"Distance is NOT loudness. Distance is NOT determined by or the result of the amount of reverb placed on a sound source. Distance IS the result of timbral information and detail."

That said, there are correlations between loudness and distance and reverb does play a tiny tiny part in determining distance. But 99% of our ability to hear distance is from how much of the instrument we hear. Air absorbs high frequencies, so you'll want to cut those. The best idea is to get somebody to play an instrument right next to you and then far away and listen for the differences in frequency ALONE. Ignore reverb, ignore how loud it is. If you're mimicking how it would sound at that distance in nature, you'll want to add some reverb and decrease the level anyway, but they are separate from distance localization. In general, the frequencies you'll want to toy around with are above 5k, and the threshold drops as the source gets further away.
 
Here's where the difference between pre and post aux send come into play nicely. Most of the time we use post fader aux so that as the fader is brought down, so is the aux send. In addition to rolling off the highs (source and verb), try setting up a pre fader aux send and then as you bring down the fader, the relationship between direct and reflected sound will change. It should create the feeling that the source is moving away from you.
 
Often it's not the setting on the reverb itself. The ratio between the dry and wet signal can change depth percetion, too. Well, technically, that IS a setting on the reverb, but you know...............
 
Here's some work done by David Griesinger, a physicist who works in the field of sound and music. Good stuff:

The subjects are "Distance Effect and Muddiness" and "Recording the Verdi Requiem in Surround Sound and High-Definition Video" These lectures are presented in a .zip file so the audio examples can be included. It is recommended you unzip the package in a single directory, and then view the slides with powerpoint. The audio examples should work when clicked.

http://world.std.com/~griesngr/distance_verdi.zip
 
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