Whoopysnorp
New member
Jesus H...I'm saying that the ambient sound coming from the sides of the mic will not be amplified nearly as heavily as the loud thing that is right in front of the mic. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Jesus H...I'm saying that the ambient sound coming from the sides of the mic will not be amplified nearly as heavily as the loud thing that is right in front of the mic. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
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jonnyc
New member
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MrStitch
New member
Let's remember that the Peavey xxx is NOT here yet.... won't have that until about May or so. Thus, I'm stuck with my crappy Marshall solid state and forced to turn it up almost over half just to breach the volume of the drums.
Also, you said that the amp sound will outweigh the ambient sound from the sides. That said, would it be safe to assume that i STILL could easily get feedback problems due to the fact that the ambient noise is present?
Sorry for all the headache guys, but a $100 to me is a lot of money, and I'd sure hate to blow it on something only to dive headfirst into feedback hell.....
Also, you said that the amp sound will outweigh the ambient sound from the sides. That said, would it be safe to assume that i STILL could easily get feedback problems due to the fact that the ambient noise is present?
Sorry for all the headache guys, but a $100 to me is a lot of money, and I'd sure hate to blow it on something only to dive headfirst into feedback hell.....
Kevin Deschwazi
Well-known member
1000’s of people playing gigs all over the world every night don’t have a problem sticking a 57 in front of their cab.
I doubt you will either.
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omo
New member
Hi, Do you have a link to this?
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yoyo
At your service
scrubs
Not of sound mind
AKG C414 is used a fair amount on amps for live and recording. Audio Technica AT4050 or CAD M179 would be lower budget choices. However, like the others, I'd recommend a dynamic. I'm really loving my Shure SM7B right now on amps, but I'm still in the honeymoon phase.
Whoopysnorp
New member
This page describes it pretty well: http://www.churchmedia.net/CMN/general-audio/17017-shure-sm57-modification-experiment-described.html
It's pretty simple to do.
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Ironklad Audio
New member
you're likely referring to the sennnheiser e609...it's the flat, square one that you can hang in front of the speaker
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boingoman
New member
That's not what you said. You said:
Remember, with the gain on the preamp set low to accommodate your big loud guitar amp, it's not going to be sensitive enough to pick up much else.
Which is totally not right. The reason the bleed isn't as loud is because it isn't as loud.
Your gain setting doesn't affect the amount or level of bleed at all, or how sensitive the mic is.
Whoopysnorp
New member
Poor choice of words, but I was trying to say that with the gain on the preamp set at the proper level for a guitar amp, the ambient noise in the other parts of the mic's pickup pattern will not be amplified sufficiently to pass through the speakers back into the mic and create a feedback loop. Jeez, you guys are pedantic!
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Well, keep in mind that ambient noise isn't really the source of feedback - feedback is caused by a "loop" being created where noise being picked up from the microphone is being broadcast through your PA, and in turn the sound coming through the PA is being picked up by your microphone, and in turn broadcast back through the PA, where it is in turn again picked up by your microphone, repeat ad nauseum.
Obviously ambient noise is part of the problem, but another part of the problem is the mic's position with regards to the PA speakers. If the speakers are projecting away from the mic and the mic is facing away from the speakers (as is common in a sound reinforcement situation where you have the mains in front of the band facing out, and the mic facing towards the back of the stage, into the grille of the (forward or side) facing amp. So, unless you've got your mains facing directly towards your amp mic, which is positioned in such a way that it's going to pick up a not-negligible chunk of sound coming out of your mains, I think the risk of a guitar mic feeding back (especially given the seriously high output of a 100-watt tube head) is pretty minimal. My experience has been if you've got to worry about anything, it's going to be the vocal mics and the monitors.
As far as condensors in a live situation, I want to say either Paul Gilbert or Bruce Bouillet had some sort of condensor on one of their amps when I caught them at the last G3 concert, but that's about the only time I can ever recall seeing a condensor on an amp in a live context. Just about every other guitarist I've ever seen live has had some sort of dynamic on his cab.
The SM57 is probably the safest bet out there - once you learn how to dial in an amp correctly to be "listened" to through a microphone, and once you learn how to position said microphone, well... It's tradition more than anything else, I guess, but the 57 has been used on SO many guitar tracks over the years that it's very much become the "sound" of rock guitar. It's not the fullest frequency mic out there by any means, but the frequencies it does pick up accentuate what your ear wants to hear from an electric guitar.
Almost as importantly, not only is it a mic that does sound great on a guitar cab, they're notoriously bulletproof. If you've only got the cash to spend on one mic, you need to buy something that won't go on the fritz if iit gets dropped/has beer spilled on it/has a guitar fall off a stand and hit it/spends twenty minutes talking with the old geezer at the bar talking about how his LP has so much sustain that you can pluck a note go out to lunch, and come back and it's still ringing/etc. In short, you can do a lot of bad things to it and you probably won't reallly hurt the thing. A condensor would most likely be a bit more delicate.
As far as SM57 alternatives, the e609 is popular and has been on my "to-buy" list for ages, ever since I read an interview with Petrucci swearing by it and a 57 in conjunction on a guitar amp being the best guitar tone he's ever captured (hey, we're all guilty of a little hero worship now and then.
). Likewise, I've also got an Audix i5 that I go back and forth on - the SM57 is a little more mid-heavy, while the i5 is slightly more scooped and a little more open in the highs. It's subtle, but nice - if you play a lot of metal/heavier stuff, the i5 might be a good match for you, and will cost you about the same, maybe $10 more, than a SM57. You use your BlueTube as a live pre? I've got one too, but don't gig with it. Granted that's probably because I'm between bands, but it wouldn't have occured to me to take out anyway, lol. That saiid, a buddy of mine uses his as a pre he runs through before going into a Rocktron Chameleon, and swears by the combination, so maybe a little thinking outside the box here is in order...
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omo
New member
Did I ask you?
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omo
New member
Cool. Thanks
Whoopysnorp
New member
As far as SM57 alternatives, the e609 is popular and has been on my "to-buy" list for ages, ever since I read an interview with Petrucci swearing by it and a 57 in conjunction on a guitar amp being the best guitar tone he's ever captured (hey, we're all guilty of a little hero worship now and then.
This is more from a standpoint of recording than live sound, but a while back I read a tip that totally changed the way I mic amps for recording: use a dynamic of your choice (for me it's the black e609) and a large diaphragm condenser of your choice (for me it's been either a CAD M-37 or an MXL V69M) and point them both at the same speaker at a slight angle, so each mic winds up being aimed at the opposite speaker wall from where it is placed. In other words the imaginary lines projecting from your mic diaphragms are forming kind of a V with the open end pointed at your speaker. I usually wind up aiming mine very close to the center of the cone, but not right on. The two tones seem to complement each other very well and make for a very thick and meaty tone, good for panning left and right (or not). I haven't once felt the need to double a guitar track since I started doing this.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
1.) Try it doubled anyway.
Honestly, I've never heard a guitar tone that COULDN'T be improved by doubletracking or quad tracking. The one exception I guess is leads, not because I don't think it could help, but because I improvise all my solos, lol. 2.) I'll give it a shot, thanks.
I haven't really spent much time working with more than one mic on a guitar amp because phasing issues are always such a pain in the arse and because it IS possible to get a great tone from a single well-placed dynamic, but really I'm just being lazy. How far away are you placing the mics? Are we talking the typical "two inches or less" close micing position, similar to a stereo X-Y array, or do you have them back qite a bit further? I'd guess the former, but... Thanks!
Whoopysnorp
New member
It is the former--this is pretty similar to an X/Y miking config.
The reason I like this and avoid doubles is because it helps the guitar track sound more real to me, and it enables me to toss off little fills and things in a performance without worrying about having to take the trouble to learn them and reproduce them in the double. I'm sure I'd get a 'bigger' sound by doubling my approach, but honestly I find that this way the guitar takes up a lot of space in the mix and doubling would just clutter things.
The reason I like this and avoid doubles is because it helps the guitar track sound more real to me, and it enables me to toss off little fills and things in a performance without worrying about having to take the trouble to learn them and reproduce them in the double. I'm sure I'd get a 'bigger' sound by doubling my approach, but honestly I find that this way the guitar takes up a lot of space in the mix and doubling would just clutter things.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Eh, I improv every solo I take even when tracking, I can totally relate. thanks, I'll be sure to experiment, this will certainly take care of my phasing frustration!
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MrStitch
New member
DrewPeterson: You asked about me using my BlueTube in a live gig..... Well, sort of. I also run a karaoke outfit on the side, which happens to generate more money than the band hahahhah.
Anyways, we use it on our SM58's, and have had pretty good results. Of course, in that type of situation, 'good results' don't have much to do with singers' sound quality. Eliminating feedback is the big issue, and we have a so-so Behringer mixer. If use too much gain on the mixer, we get all kinds of crazy shit.
Ever since I added the BlueTube, things have been kosher. I'm assuming it just has a cleaner gain than the mixer.
Anyways, thanks for all the great tips guys, and that double mic'ing the speaker cab tip was real nice. Rep added.....
Anyways, we use it on our SM58's, and have had pretty good results. Of course, in that type of situation, 'good results' don't have much to do with singers' sound quality. Eliminating feedback is the big issue, and we have a so-so Behringer mixer. If use too much gain on the mixer, we get all kinds of crazy shit.
Ever since I added the BlueTube, things have been kosher. I'm assuming it just has a cleaner gain than the mixer.
Anyways, thanks for all the great tips guys, and that double mic'ing the speaker cab tip was real nice. Rep added.....
