Muttley, Light, any interested parties..

[32-20-Blues]

What do you guys think abut this?



It's a Martin 000-15 that has been converted to an Octave Mandolin.

Couple of questions:
1) Is this something you would feel comfortable doing?
2) Would the bridge/neck withstand the increased tension of 8 strings?
3) Do you imagine that it would sound radically different to a conventional octave mando? (Too heavy a bass response?)

 

[Horsedoc]

What do you guys think abut this?



It's a Martin 000-15 that has been converted to an Octave Mandolin.

Couple of questions:
1) Is this something you would feel comfortable doing?
2) Would the bridge/neck withstand the increased tension of 8 strings?
3) Do you imagine that it would sound radically different to a conventional octave mando? (Too heavy a bass response?)

1) I wouldn't attempt it, but with the proper skills, why not?

2) with appropriate string gauges and tunings, you should be able to approximate the tension of a 6 string. (I haven't taken the time to do the calculations though, so I could be wrong.)

3) I think you'd just have to try and find out. Hard to predict, but I find Mahogany tops to have less resonance, sharper attack and more rapid decay. Might be just the thing for an octave mando.

 

[muttley600]

Interesting. I haven't done anything like that before so any comments are observations from me. I've only ever built one octave mandola and can't recall the string length or neck width but from memory it's not generally the same so I'd want to check that. I would want to check the tension but I suspect it would hold up. I'd need to know the string gauge, string length and tuning to get that info. What is that instrument tuned to?

As to the sound it's a real lottery really no way to tell. If it were me I'd want to design the bracing specifically but no reason it wouldn't sound good.

Would I tackle the job. Probably not. I'd have a go at building one from scratch with a similar outline if asked that would be my choice.

Where did you find this pic and who did the conversion?

 

[mshilarious]

The neck would be too wide for a traditional bouzouki.

 

[Light]

I've seen a couple which have had that done, but I've got no interest in doing it myself. But I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find someone whose business is slow these days.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[32-20-Blues]

The neck would be too wide for a traditional bouzouki.

Yeah, definitely, although I find the neck on a traditional bouzouki too awkward anyway.

The scale length of an octave mando is about that of an acoustic caped on the second, while a bouzouki's scale length is the same as a guitar's. This conversion, then, is misnamed - it's more of a bouzouki than an octave mando

Muttley - it's tuned GDAE (or GDAD). Here's the website http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/8StConvert/8stconvert.html - although I don't like some of the details of the job, such as the filling in of the old tuner holes.
It just looked like a cool idea, and it got me thinking - if it can be done with an acoustic, then why not with a budget electric with a six each side headstock?

Horsedoc - I've since done some calculations, and even with the lightest string gauge it's still going to be under a bit more pressure, but not too much.

 

[muttley600]

Muttley - it's tuned GDAE (or GDAD). Here's the website http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/8StConvert/8stconvert.html - although I don't like some of the details of the job, such as the filling in of the old tuner holes.
It just looked like a cool idea, and it got me thinking - if it can be done with an acoustic, then why not with a budget electric with a six each side headstock?

It's one of Frank Fords projects so it's undoubtedly been well researched. He knows what he's doing even if sometimes he ploughs his own path. Interesting all the same. I still wouldn't consider it even if I was short of work.

 

[crazydoc]

even if sometimes he ploughs his own path.

That's the way civilization evolves and progresses. Frank has great ideas and abilities, and what's even more remarkable, he freely shares them with the world instead of keeping them "trade secrets."

 

[muttley600]

That's the way civilization evolves and progresses. Frank has great ideas and abilities, and what's even more remarkable, he freely shares them with the world instead of keeping them "trade secrets."

Absolutely. What I meant was in no way a criticism. If someone says it can't be done, Franks your man. He also has an incredible work ethic and is a real nice guy with it. I also don't know many luthiers who have any trade secrets they keep to themselves. The field as a whole communicates very well and exchanges ideas both successful and failed. Thats the way it should be.

 

[crazydoc]

Absolutely. What I meant was in no way a criticism. If someone says it can't be done, Franks your man. He also has an incredible work ethic and is a real nice guy with it. I also don't know many luthiers who have any trade secrets they keep to themselves. The field as a whole communicates very well and exchanges ideas both successful and failed. Thats the way it should be.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that luthiers as a group have trade secrets - but in many aspects of the music industry, especially the manufacture of recording equipment, and especially in the subgroup of microphone technology, secrets are the name of the game.

And I don't mean this pejoratively - it seems to be a necessity in the industry. I only mean to commend Frank for being particularly innovative, open with his methods and tools, and for his active interest in sharing them with others.

 

[Light]

The field as a whole communicates very well and exchanges ideas both successful and failed. Thats the way it should be.

This is one of my favorite things about being a guitar builder. The ethic seems to be, "it's impossible to make a living doing this shit, so lets do whatever we can to make it easier for each other."

Actually, my favorite example of this (just for the grandeur of it) is when Martin first got their CNC machines, and Taylor sent them copies of ALL of Taylors CNC machining files so the CNC guys at Martin could see how Taylor had made it work.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[rileykill]

There was an article in issue #4 of Fretboard Journal that featured this exact instrument. It indicated that the mahogany top and body size are well suited for this use and sound excellent.

It's a relatively inexpensive instrument that is currently in production, so I wouldn't have a problem with the conversion. In 50 years, who knows?

 

[32-20-Blues]

There was an article in issue #4 of Fretboard Journal that featured this exact instrument. It indicated that the mahogany top and body size are well suited for this use and sound excellent.

It's a relatively inexpensive instrument that is currently in production, so I wouldn't have a problem with the conversion. In 50 years, who knows?

That's where I saw the instrument first. Did you see the harp guitar conversion in the same issue?

 

[rileykill]

That's where I saw the instrument first. Did you see the harp guitar conversion in the same issue?

Yeah that one was a mess. I don't envy the person who decides to tackle that job. OTOH, I'd convert the Hawaiian Martin to Spanish style in a heartbeat.

 

[32-20-Blues]

Yeah that one was a mess. I don't envy the person who decides to tackle that job. OTOH, I'd convert the Hawaiian Martin to Spanish style in a heartbeat.

Definitely - and because the nut had previously been so high, you'd have a vintage Martin with an immaculate fretboard, perfect (original) frets and no wear to the neck.

 

[rileykill]

Definitely - and because the nut had previously been so high, you'd have a vintage Martin with an immaculate fretboard, perfect (original) frets and no wear to the neck.

the frets were flush ... you'd need a complete refret to make it playable (in the standard fashion). still, it'd be nice.

 

[32-20-Blues]

You're right, I forgot that they were flush. I wonder why they bothered doing that?

I'm gonna go read that issue again.

 

[muttley600]

You're right, I forgot that they were flush. I wonder why they bothered doing that?

I'm gonna go read that issue again.

Do you mean why are the frets flush?

I know that players on instruments like hammered dulcimers and the like don't want anything under the strings that stage lights or similar might stop them from hitting the string in in the right place. They even go so far as to have the soundboard painted matt black so they know where they are. They do all sorts of things to stop shadows , reflections etc. This may have something to do with it but I don't have first hand chat to back that up in this case. I'm sure there is reason. Someone may have a credible explanation.

 

[crazydoc]

You're right, I forgot that they were flush. I wonder why they bothered doing that?

I'm gonna go read that issue again.

Maybe because they're only used as visual markers, and not used to fret strings. They look better and more "guitar-like" than something painted on, and are probably easier to do than inlay.

 

[muttley600]

Have you guys got a pic or link to this instrument. I don't get too many journals these days. I used to get them all but never had time to read them.

Are these frets just ground flat? or something other??