Preamp A vs Preamp B - Discuss.

[Robert D]

What I dislike is the comparison in form of a simple poll.

It was a blind A/B test, not a simple poll.

I bet you someone on this board will purchase a DMP3 after seeing the poll results.

The horror.... the humanity.

A fair amount of people listened and considered the DMP3 a better preamp.

It was 40% to 25%. I think a "fair amount of people" really understates it. It's a duck, *quack quack* call it a freakin duck!

.......and it bothered me to read that some people were saying the DMP3 is a better preamp because nothing good will come from it. More DMP3's will be sold and less RNP's.

And this is a problem for you why?

In all fairness, one preamp sounding better on one source doesn't make it the better preamp, it makes it the better preamp on that source. But give it it's due, the DMP3 deserves it's reputation and sounds great on a lot of things. If it sounds good, it is good. And if it puts good sound into the hands of a lot of recordists who can't afford a high end pre, then bravo!

 

[nuemes]

And this is a problem for you why? And if it puts good sound into the hands of a lot of recordists who can't afford a high end pre, then bravo!

Well, that's it, isn't it? Crappier sounding recordings compressed to low quality MP3 and uploaded to Myspace.

There's a talented singer/songwriter up here that recently recorded an albums worth of material at her friend's home studio. Beautiful songwriting and performances. When they were done tracking they took it to a local semi-pro studio for mixing. The engineer there is very talented and much more experieced than me & turns out better recordings than a handful of 'pro' studio's in the area.

There was nothing he could do to make a good mix from any of the tracks. They had recorded everything on crappy, brittle, crispy mics and shitty preamps in a small space and that's what they got when the mixing was completed: crappy, brittle, shitty and small. The recording is peircing.

The singer/songwriter is stuck with 500 copies of turds and she's out whatever amount she spent on it. She's not getting local airplay though she would easily under better circumstances. And the songs are otherwise lost unless she re-records all of them and re-releases it.

---

I'm not saying that a good recording can't be made on the DMP3. If I needed a preamp in that price range that's what I would get. But I would not compare it favorably to the RNP based on the samples Neep provided and am disapointed to find that so many people did.

 

[XLR]

Well, that's it, isn't it? Crappier sounding recordings compressed to low quality MP3 and uploaded to Myspace.

There's a talented singer/songwriter up here that recently recorded an albums worth of material at her friend's home studio. Beautiful songwriting and performances. When they were done tracking they took it to a local semi-pro studio for mixing. The engineer there is very talented and much more experieced than me & turns out better recordings than a handful of 'pro' studio's in the area.

There was nothing he could do to make a good mix from any of the tracks. They had recorded everything on crappy, brittle, crispy mics and shitty preamps in a small space and that's what they got when the mixing was completed: crappy, brittle, shitty and small. The recording is peircing.

The singer/songwriter is stuck with 500 copies of turds and she's out whatever amount she spent on it. She's not getting local airplay though she would easily under better circumstances. And the songs are otherwise lost unless she re-records all of them and re-releases it.

I'm not seeing your point... what does this has to do with RobertD's post that you quoted?

I'm not saying that a good recording can't be made on the DMP3. If I needed a preamp in that price range that's what I would get. But I would not compare it favorably to the RNP based on the samples Neep provided and am disapointed to find that so many people did.

Neep's link went to Fran Guidry's site, and to samples there (I assume). This thread is about Barn Owl's samples. Two different things. Or am I missing something?

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Well, that's it, isn't it? Crappier sounding recordings compressed to low quality MP3 and uploaded to Myspace.

There's a talented singer/songwriter up here that recently recorded an albums worth of material at her friend's home studio. Beautiful songwriting and performances. When they were done tracking they took it to a local semi-pro studio for mixing. The engineer there is very talented and much more experieced than me & turns out better recordings than a handful of 'pro' studio's in the area.

There was nothing he could do to make a good mix from any of the tracks. They had recorded everything on crappy, brittle, crispy mics and shitty preamps in a small space and that's what they got when the mixing was completed: crappy, brittle, shitty and small. The recording is peircing.

The singer/songwriter is stuck with 500 copies of turds and she's out whatever amount she spent on it. She's not getting local airplay though she would easily under better circumstances. And the songs are otherwise lost unless she re-records all of them and re-releases it.

---

I'm not saying that a good recording can't be made on the DMP3. If I needed a preamp in that price range that's what I would get. But I would not compare it favorably to the RNP based on the samples Neep provided and am disapointed to find that so many people did.

I'd wager that 95% (probably more) of the crappiness came from factors other than the mics and preamps used. How were the room acoustics? How much time did they put into mic positioning? Did they get the gain staging right? etcetera, etcetera....

In the right hands, decent recordings can be made with a sound blaster, a behringer mixer and samson mic. You can't blame gear for shit recordings these days (and that's coming from someone who needs all the excuses they can get ).

 

[XLR]

I'd wager that 95% (probably more) of the crappiness came from factors other than the mics and preamps used. How were the room acoustics? How much time did they put into mic positioning? Did they get the gain staging right? etcetera, etcetera....

In the right hands, decent recordings can be made with a sound blaster, a behringer mixer and samson mic. You can't blame gear for shit recordings these days (and that's coming from someone who needs all the excuses they can get ).

Very true.

But great gear (and having a variety of mic's to suit the circumstances especially) can make it an awful lot easier to get good sound quality. For instance using a good hypercard in a bad room. Or using a mic or pre that smooths out transient response on a harsh sounding source. But even with those things unskilled use will easily get bad results.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Very true.

But great gear (and having a variety of mic's to suit the circumstances especially) can make it an awful lot easier to get good sound quality. For instance using a good hypercard in a bad room. Or using a mic or pre that smooths out transient response on a harsh sounding source. But even with those things unskilled use will easily get bad results.

Of course, cheap gear or limited gear options usually means more work.

I've acquired some decent quality preamps in the last year or so and they're nice to have.

But they haven't turned me into George Massenburg.

 

[nuemes]

I'm not seeing your point... what does this has to do with RobertD's post that you quoted?

Neep's link went to Fran Guidry's site, and to samples there (I assume). This thread is about Barn Owl's samples. Two different things. Or am I missing something?

RobertD asked "And this is a problem for you why?"; my point is that many CD's sound bad these days because of lack of experience by people doing the recording - and lack of availability of good equipment.

I thought the samples were directly from Neep. No?

 

[nuemes]

I'd wager that 95% (probably more) of the crappiness came from factors other than the mics and preamps used. How were the room acoustics? How much time did they put into mic positioning? Did they get the gain staging right? etcetera, etcetera....

In the right hands, decent recordings can be made with a sound blaster, a behringer mixer and samson mic. You can't blame gear for shit recordings these days (and that's coming from someone who needs all the excuses they can get ).

Ha. Make an entire band recording on a MXL990 and Behringer pre and see how that sounds

 

[XLR]

I thought the samples were directly from Neep. No?

Gotta laugh. Checking the original post, Neeps is Barn Owl. Must have been an alias, as is so common (snickers guiltily).

 

[antichef]

I missed this thread originally, so I'm glad to see it revived - just read it from start to finish. I decided not to vote at about the second page. I *could* hear differences between the tracks, both in headphones and some cheap monitors I have, but even with that information, I can't tell you which one I think is superior. Sorta like, I could tell you which race car I like better based on the color and shape, but they both look pretty good, and I don't have a clue which one will win the race.

That said, this was good reading for me, and thanks Neeps/Barn Owl for making the test and taking the heat - you've taught me a valuable lesson.

I've got a DMP3 in the mail (ordered before I saw this thread) and a couple of other low end pres, and I now realize that I should be focusing on other things for the time being, here in home-studio-land.

Oh, yes, and I'm a scot-extracted yank (actually, never call a texan a yank - sensitive thing) who's been to both Glasgow and Edinburgh - I about got into two fights in Edinburgh just minding my own yank business -- no one seemed to give a rats ass about my proud lineage

 

[Neeps]

Neep's link went to Fran Guidry's site, and to samples there (I assume). This thread is about Barn Owl's samples. Two different things. Or am I missing something?

Hey Tim,

Barn Owl went the same way as Handsome Al, Barn Owl is dead....
LONG LIVE NEEPS!!

The first thread was me playing, I also linked to Fran's site cos he did a similar thing but included a John Hardy M-1. I think most people are still talking about the original samples. Maybe I should have started a new thread.

 

[Neeps]

Oh, yes, and I'm a scot-extracted yank (actually, never call a texan a yank - sensitive thing) who's been to both Glasgow and Edinburgh - I about got into two fights in Edinburgh just minding my own yank business -- no one seemed to give a rats ass about my proud lineage

Well sorry about that, we Scots have our full quota of arseholes over like most places I suppose. I hope that didn't ruin your visit and that you'd still come back again some time.

That said, this was good reading for me, and thanks Neeps/Barn Owl for making the test and taking the heat - you've taught me a valuable lesson.

I've got a DMP3 in the mail (ordered before I saw this thread) and a couple of other low end pres, and I now realize that I should be focusing on other things for the time being, here in home-studio-land.

No problem. That's exactly what I learned as well. After this test I stopped worrying about preamps. Don't get me wrong... I don't want to rubbish pro-gear at all.... and I'm sure that once you have a great room (probably treated) to record in and when you play the guitar like XLR can you start to turn your attention to the finer nuances of the recording. That's fine. But most problematic homerecordings that I hear have limitations that have nothing to do with the type of preamp used. That's what worries me about Nuemes stance, and that's why I think these tests are valuable.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Ha. Make an entire band recording on a MXL990 and Behringer pre and see how that sounds

Well I never have and I never will. Same for you I expect? The point I’m making is that you cannot listen to a crap recording and say “it’s the gear”. Not unless you were there when they did it and everything was spot on except for the gear. Even recordings made with the RNP (or a Neve or a Fearn) will sound shit if everything else is out of whack.

I suspect if a recording was made with that gear in a nice sounding room, with good instruments, good players and a good engineer, it wouldn’t sound too bad. It would be an interesting experiment.

....and I now realize that I should be focusing on other things for the time being, here in home-studio-land.

Very wise.

 

[Robert D]

Yes, the really interesting test would be if someone ever took a handfull of the cream of the budget crop into a million dollar facility and did some tracks, with an A list engineer at the helm and some name talent on the other side of the glass. Of course that'll happen about the time that pigs take wing, but it sure would be telling.
What we do have though is the excellent stuff that Harvey does at Indian Trail, and he has shown again and again that good budget gear sounds fine in the right hands. I guarantee you he could make a fine sounding record with a stack of DMP3s.

 

[MCI2424]

1 just seems a bit "loose" to me.

Both sound pretty good, but I would use 2 for just about any production compared to one.

Oh brother. That is a blanket statement if ever I heard one.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Are you revealing the names of these preamps? If so what is B?

 

[XLR]

I'm guessing you haven't read all nine pages of the thread.

This thread was great. But now it should be re-titled Night of the Living Thread. Or The Thread that Would Not Die.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Are you revealing the names of these preamps? If so what is B?

Pre A is the RNP by FMR Audio, Pre B is the DMP-3 by M Audio.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2506839&postcount=102

 

[Newbie-Doo]

Thanks Owl, worked. 2nd one sounds a bunch fuller to me. Nice by itself, not sure how it would sit in a mix

Yes, fuller/warmer on the 2nd. I'm listening on old creative 4.1 speakers for what that's worth. Hoping to get some mackie mr5's real soon.

Like the guitar sound and tune also. Nice work.

 

[Newbie-Doo]

There is so many signers out there can't we get both? Soulful and singing IN TUNE???

Thierry

Have you heard the girls from Eisley? Prepare to be addicted. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsyJCYz0Up4&feature=related