Sitting Vocals in a Mix

  • Thread starter Thread starter DarkFriend
  • Start date Start date
D

DarkFriend

New member
Last thread I posted turned into a flamewar. Perhaps this one will be different..

In most cases, I record the music for an entire song and only then record the vocals. My mixes before the vocals get in sound great. When I try to lay the vocals into the mix, the vocals seem to get lost and don't have the presence and "umph" of the other tracks.

Note - I DO leave room for them in terms of music arrangement. There are "holes" where the lyrics come in. All lyrics and the vocal melody are written before the music, so there is definitely room for them and the vocals aren't an afterthought.

I've got a few decent large dia condenser mics in the $150-$250 range. Not the best, but surely not the worst. I'm also running through a decent tube preamp.

Any ideas? Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Keep in mind ... I'm not trying to be funny here. :D

And I'm certainly not trying to start a flame war. But the best thing you could probably do?

Post an MP3.

:D

Seriously. It is. Let people hear what you're talking about.

.
 
Recording vocals now on a new tune. Should have some up this weekend.
 
It's a pretty easy thing to do, isn't it?

Technology is pretty cool like that.

:D
 
DarkFriend said:
Last thread I posted turned into a flamewar. Perhaps this one will be different..

In most cases, I record the music for an entire song and only then record the vocals. My mixes before the vocals get in sound great. When I try to lay the vocals into the mix, the vocals seem to get lost and don't have the presence and "umph" of the other tracks.

Note - I DO leave room for them in terms of music arrangement. There are "holes" where the lyrics come in. All lyrics and the vocal melody are written before the music, so there is definitely room for them and the vocals aren't an afterthought.

I've got a few decent large dia condenser mics in the $150-$250 range. Not the best, but surely not the worst. I'm also running through a decent tube preamp.

Any ideas? Thanks!
Click to expand...


There's a particular article in mixonline where Tom Lord Alge briefly sheds his thoughts on getting vocals to sit firmly in a mix. He talks about heavy compression on vocals to emphasize "attitude". Like putting on a nice leather jacket.

If you listen closely to alot of mainstream mixes on the radio, you'll see that heavy compression and the right kind of limiting on lead vocal tracks (done properly though) sells the sound.

So a good mic and pre helps, yes, but how you treat it in the mix seals the deal.


Look up Tom Lord Alge on mixonline.com and you'll be pressed to learn more.
 
yeah I always compress the snot out of my vocals (my mixes are very dense in the first place) ... isn't his name Chris Lord Algae? or am I mistaken.

Sometimes I'll throw an instance of the Logic "distortion plugin" with just a slight bit of distortion and the frequency all the way (or almost all the way) up... can give it some bite...

Consider also that you might be using the wrong mic for the person's voice... I had a hell of a lot of trouble finding a mic that would capture the high frequencies properly of the vocalist of my primary band... Just changing the mic helped to make her cut through more easily.
 
DarkFriend said:
I've got a few decent large dia condenser mics in the $150-$250 range. Not the best, but surely not the worst. I'm also running through a decent tube preamp.
Click to expand...

It's not the microphone or preamp or other gear. It never is. :D

Here's a great tip to make vocals sit nicely in almost any track, and be perfectly clear without having to be too loud:

Send all the tracks except the lead vocal to one output bus, then send the vocal to another bus. On the vocal bus use an EQ to boost 1 KHz by 2 to 3 dB with a gentle Q (0.8 to 1.0), and on the other bus reduce the same frequency the same amount with the same Q. Voila!

BTW, the same trick works well with electric bass, but in that case you'll boost and cut somewhere between 200 and 400 Hz, depending on the type of bass tone you're going for, the key of the song, and what frequency ranges the other instruments are playing in.

--Ethan
 
Ethan,
I tried the EQing you described on a bass line and kick drum(boosting/reducing at a particular frequency) and it worked very well.I would like to set up a template in my DAW,FL Studio,the way you described but FL doesn't refer to busses,just sends.I assume it's just the same and any track in FL can be used for a send so I'll give it a try.What is the Q you mentioned?
 
If a vocal isn't cutting I usually try heavy compression, boosting around 3k, maybe a touch of distortion on a mult and blend that in. If it's too thin I'll try some double tracking and/or delay.
 
Steve,

Stevebol said:
FL doesn't refer to busses,just sends.
Click to expand...
This type of EQ not meant to be put on a send/return bus, but rather in series on an output bus. As for Q, you need to experiment. But generally, wider is better than narrower.

--Ethan
 
So can I just route all my tracks,minus the vocals,to another track and then apply the type of EQing you described to the two overall tracks?Many people do that with their drum tracks.


I didn't mean to hijack this thread but I think I did.Sorry.
 
Last edited:
Nice tune! I only listened on my laptop so far, so I can only comment on the song itself, which is very good.
It's very beatles-esque...

My daughter was dancing to it. That's a good sign. ;)

I'll put it up on the monitors tonight and give it a "sonic" listen.

Cheers,

Shawn
 
well i do pre-recording compression to give me a decent starting point b4 the mixdown....

then i add light compression pending how the track sounds wit my vocals to it, my voice is naturally deep so it sits well with alot of instruments, then again i rap, so i know slightly more than a drummer according to one of our regular fellow posters, lol!

but usually some compression and EQ's are all i need, along with doubled vocals, the only thing standard about Hip-Hop is them damn cookie-cutter dance songs........
 
chessrock said:
It's a pretty easy thing to do, isn't it?

Technology is pretty cool like that.

:D
Click to expand...

Yeah, as Tony always says ... its ggg-great!

I remember back in the good Ol day when people couldn't record at all. They just had to play live. What a shame.

Eck
 
DarkFriend said:
Thanks to everyone in this thread for the advice, and a bit of inspiration. After 6 months of trying, I finally got it right, and this thread was instrumental (no pun intended). To listen to the track I was working on, see:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=5272/singles
Click to expand...

Is this the finished mix?
The vocals are out of tune at times. When you are doubling vocals you really need close to perfect takes (then you can use auto tunt to correct small imperfections).

The snare is very explosive, which I dont like for this. How much high end did you boost on the snare?


Cool tune by the way.
Eck
 
Yes, cool tune! But you've got a lot of distortion in the mix, particularly on the kicks. Sounds like you were slammin the two buss too hard or something.
 
There have been some pretty good tips here for vocals:) I too have fouind that a nice dose of a quality compressor can really help a vocal stand out without actually getting too loud. One other thing I have noticed, this especially is where a good preamp and a good mic really start to show their worth. It is amazing how much difference a good combination can make in a mix. When you solo them they may not seem all that different, but when you start dropping them in a mix and trying to apply compression and/or EQ they really start to reveal their worth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top