switch polarity to reduce bleed in live tracking??

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Hi_Flyer

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so I want to do some tracking at my new place... tracking some live stuff in the basement, kind of a small space, loud rock, hard hitting drums and loud guitar amp...

I'm gonna try to isolate the guitar amp as much as I can (put it behind the furnace, hang some heavy heavy blankets, etc...) but there is going to be some unavoidable bleed in the drum overs. I'm trying to keep track count low, maybe only keep it to eight tracks on a 1/2" reel to reel, so no close mic'ed toms means I can't EQ too much out of the drum overheads...

My idea was to record the guitar with polarity reversed so that when summed with the drum overheads, some of the guitar bleeding into the overs will be canceled/reduced/eliminated. is this a crazy idea? is there any way in hell it will work the way I want it too?
 
Hi_Flyer said:
My idea was to record the guitar with polarity reversed so that when summed with the drum overheads, some of the guitar bleeding into the overs will be canceled/reduced/eliminated. is this a crazy idea? is there any way in hell it will work the way I want it too?
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It might work a little, but I wouldn't depend on it. The problem is by the time the guitar amp signal arrives in the overheads, there will be a phase difference, and a frequency response difference, as well as reflected sound, that will make the guitar in the overheads and the amp mic significantly different. Also, you are probably using different mics to record overheads and guitar, which will contribute to the problem.

Bleed is generally good, especially in live tracked loud rock music. But it doesn't hurt anything to try (although there is no need to invert polarity during recording, you can just play with it in the mix).
 
Also you are going to align it with what? The left OH? The right OH? the snare mike? Since they are all in different positions they are going to have phase differences between the mikes themselves.
If I were you, I would probably record the guitar clean directly through line, maybe with some distortion as an insert FX but just to keep the groove. That way you get totally rid of bleeding.
And once you have recorded it, you take out the (clean) guitar track and plug it to your amp, mike it, play it back and record it distorted. Of course you will need an extra track but it seems the best way to do it, apart from some other advantages (like taking all the time you need to find a good guitar sound).
 
I'm sorry to say that there's probably no way this will work. You can play with it and there might be some difference, but it will be very slight and might even be worse with the polarity reversed. The large distance from the guitar amp to the drum mics will basically negate the possibility of phase cancellation the way you want to do it.

Bleed doesn't always sound all that bad. I think you'll be happiest if you just try to get the best drum and guitar sounds you can, use any gobos you can, and let it bleed. If you have a bass guitar amp then you could have some bigger problems.

Of course, if you have the means to record direct guitars and reamp them later or can get a decent direct sound by way of a speaker simulator or whatever, then that might be preferable.

All IMO.
 
If you cloce mic the guitar amp, any bleed into the drum mics might actually be to your advantage. It can have the same effect as using multiple mics on a cab to capture the amp as well as the room. The bleedover can help to fatten the guitar sounds.
Bleed from the kick drum mic picking up bass guitar is likely to be more of a problem especialy if you play loud. This has been more of a problem for me when trying to record a band all at once in the same room.
Bleed over in the vocal mics is another area where you may have a few problems. Hear again bass guitar may be a concern. Placement of gear and mics is likely to be the best way to overcome (or at least control) bleedover problems, even though you wont be able to stop all bleed, you can use it to broaden your sound if you place things in just the right spot.
Try a trial recording, if things work then leave them alone, if they don't move things (one thing at a time) until you find the sweet spots where things do sound good. Moving amps or mics even a few inches can make a big difference sometimes.
 
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