following scales

[djclueveli]

when followign scales, does that mean that those are the only notes and chords you can use in the song?

example:
the song is in E major key which the scale for E major is E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,and D#

so does this mean those are the notes and chords that i can use in the song? also if this is right does that mean i can use any of those notes combined with any other notes as long as one of those notes are the root note? (example can i use any of those notes in the scale and make any type of chord with it such as major and minor and it will be on key even if the chord consist of a note that is not part of the scale)

thanks for any feedback!!

 

[Max_Kincaide]

when followign scales, does that mean that those are the only notes and chords you can use in the song?

example:
the song is in E major key which the scale for E major is E,F#,G#,A,B,C#,and D#

so does this mean those are the notes and chords that i can use in the song? also if this is right does that mean i can use any of those notes combined with any other notes as long as one of those notes are the root note? (example can i use any of those notes in the scale and make any type of chord with it such as major and minor and it will be on key even if the chord consist of a note that is not part of the scale)

thanks for any feedback!!

You do not necessarily have to use the same notes and chords that are included in that particular scale...there are different modes you can try, as well as puting a minor scale on top of one of the chords that are included in the first scale...the best thing I can tell you to do is experiment...alot of times, music doesn't always follow its own rules, so just try different things, and don't necessarily worry about being correct on paper...as long as it SOUNDS right, then go with it.

 

[up-fiddler]

I foresee another...

...very long thread. There are many answers to your questions and it often depends on what type of music you are playing as to which scale you wish to use. One piece of advice always applies. As a musician it is a good thing to practice playing scales. Whether you use a particular scale in a particular piece of music or not, the practice and familiarity of scales will make you a better musician and songwriter.

If we knew what you were doing in the key of E it would be easier to give a more specific answer. Perhaps you could post the rhythm line for us to give a listen?

 

[dementedchord]

home run....

as an excersize it might be interesting for you to try to stay within a key... or if it's right for the tune sure.... but even bach modulated... and some would argue that the thing that made the romantic period was going "outside" as we call it in jazz.... bottom line is what does it take for you to say what you want??? and this is where i think that music theory is misunderstood... it doesn't tell you what notes to play... it's really much more like doing vocabulary if your learning a language... the more vocabulary you know the more you can say... make sense???? but if ya really want to do this you owe it to yourself to learn some theory... the decision is basiclly do you want to "speak french" or simply sound like you do.... those that do speak it will know the difference...

 

[Lt. Bob]

As others have said, this is a very long and complex subject that you can spend a lifetime studying.
To give a comments on one of your specific questions.
In most music you can't use just any chord based on a note in the scale as long as the root is one of the scale notes because there's more to it than that. In your example of E, for instance, the second note is a F#. Now, most of the time that F# is gonna need to be a minor chord. As you ascend the scale the II chord (F# in this case) is generally minor so very often an F# Major wouldn't fit. There are zillions of exceptions to this such as when someone will use a II Major as a transition from a bridge back to a verse or as a passing chord on the way to a modulation. But if you simply run up the scale is chord form, the II is minor.
So while technically it may be "in key" ..... it may or may not fit in the song that you're playing.
The theory rules are guidelines as to what to play but they're not absolutes and lots and lots of exceptions abound for almost every theory rule there is.
A few come close to being absolute, of course ..... a minor second interval (two notes a half step apart) isn't useful for very much.
But in general they are simply guidelines.
The advice given you here to practice your scales is excellent. As you practice and absorb them ..... you'll start to have an ear for what fits and what doesn't. I think the very best single thing you could do right now is practice those scales as suggested and perhaps, read up on basic theory a little bit. Not so much that it gets confusing or makes your head explode ...... but enough to start understanding those scales.

 

[up-fiddler]

As others have said, this is a very long and complex subject that you can spend a lifetime studying.
To give a comments on one of your specific questions.
In most music you can't use just any chord based on a note in the scale as long as the root is one of the scale notes because there's more to it than that. In your example of E, for instance, the second note is a F#. Now, most of the time that F# is gonna need to be a minor chord. As you ascend the scale the II chord (F# in this case) is generally minor so very often an F# Major wouldn't fit. There are zillions of exceptions to this such as when someone will use a II Major as a transition from a bridge back to a verse or as a passing chord on the way to a modulation. But if you simply run up the scale is chord form, the II is minor.
So while technically it may be "in key" ..... it may or may not fit in the song that you're playing.
The theory rules are guidelines as to what to play but they're not absolutes and lots and lots of exceptions abound for almost every theory rule there is.
A few come close to being absolute, of course ..... a minor second interval (two notes a half step apart) isn't useful for very much.
But in general they are simply guidelines.
The advice given you here to practice your scales is excellent. As you practice and absorb them ..... you'll start to have an ear for what fits and what doesn't. I think the very best single thing you could do right now is practice those scales as suggested and perhaps, read up on basic theory a little bit. Not so much that it gets confusing or makes your head explode ...... but enough to start understanding those scales.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Lt. Bob again. But good advice all the same.

 

[djclueveli]

thanks alot for the info guys! helped alot. does anyone know of any good music theory articles or .pdf i can download. or even a book

 

[liv_rong]

damn, this is why i never took lessons, but also part of the reason i wish i took lessons.

i just started playing guitar one day, no knowledge of anything, and here i am about five years later an still no knowledge. i know tons of chords and know how to play tons of notes for lead parts on those chords, but i do not have any idea what the hell i am doing or what i am actually playing. i just played, and whatever sounded good i went with it.

the only reason i want to take lessons now is to be able to know what is going on. for example, if someone tells me they are playing in a certain key, i would know what to play in and not have to figure it out by ear, which usually takes a few minutes depending on what is going on at the moment.

i have taken a few lessons with two different people, but i wasnt felling their lesson plan, so i stopped. same with drums which ive been playing for nearly ten years.

problem is i know HOW to do things, i just dont have the tolerence to learn WHAT it is that i am doing.

i suck at life i guess

 

[legionserial]

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/

Some pretty useful theory tutorial stuff, mainly aimed at guitarists, but I think a lot of it could be applied to anything. I learnt a lot from it.

 

[Oancient1]

thanks alot for the info guys! helped alot. does anyone know of any good music theory articles or .pdf i can download. or even a book

Here's what I have been using, both found at my local guitar shop:

http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Mu...1511168?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193689199&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Chord-Wheel-U...7/ref=pd_sim_b_shvl_img_2/104-0425125-1511168


The book (and accompanying CD) has taught me the theory behind chord progressions etc. that I (as a totally uneducated guitar player) have long played but did not truly "understand", and as well as new things that I have heard others play but did not play myself until recently. The chord wheel is a great tool when composing, and comes with educational info that includes use of well known songs as practical examples. In my personal experience, the learning process has been helped hugely by my doing it at the keyboard instead of with a guitar.

Tom

 

[TerraMortim]

not at all. That's the beauty of it.. to be honest there is nothing that is truely correct. All of the scales that we learn in our culture as "music theory" are really just... western music theory.. Other cultures have a fuckload more notes in between the notes we have, and different tunings (there are a ton of tunings that are vastly different than the primary one we use in modern western culture). The thing about scales, is they're a nice help to give you a general idea of the least offensive notes to use in whatever key.. but they really don't need to be followed by any means. Just do what sounds good... and if that means something that is "mathematically" wrong..it doesn't matter.