refinishing

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nicole_Rose
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Nicole...ya got a good excuse to buy another guitar....don't miss it.:D:eek::D
 
jimistone said:
I don't think black is any harder to finish/refinish that any other color. You either refinish it right...which means it is smooth as glass with no imperfections, or you don't finish it right.
Now, if you are not going to rub the finish to perfection I will say that some colors hide the imperfections better than black.

If you are not going to wet sand it to perfection I would suggest flat black or primer grey....those 2 colors hide alot of imperfetion.
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And once again, you reveal just how ignorant you are about the realities of the subject. Just because you've had some success in the area does not make you an expert, trust me.

Though I actually find white to be a bigger pain.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Nicole_Rose said:
because i want it absolutely done right. no fuckups allowed.
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Frankly, as far as I'm concerned that means NOT sending it to Gibson, as their finishing department is pretty mediocre. Like I said, try Lay's Guitar in Ohio. I don't know if they would want to do it, but if they will do it you will get a first rate job from them. Much better than what Gibson or Fender is doing these days.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
muttley600 said:
Black is the hardest finish to get right. The only thing harder is a good burst. With this you would attempting both. Even if Gibson did the job it would not be as the good as a guitar finished to that spec from the white. They use different ground prep for different finishes. Some of which would be bound to the grain after it is stripped. There would also likely be issues with the binding.
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Well, frankly I've gotten to the point where I find sprayed sunbursts really blah. One of the guys in my shop does some of the best hand rubbed sunbursts I've ever seen, and I've been fortunate to learn from him, so I kind of like doing those. But that's a whole other thing. (On the other hand, if you've got a fancy maple top, it really does seem like a waste to spray a sunburst, because a hand rubbed burst will look SO much better.)

Oh, and while I agree with you on the whole, the lacquer in the Reranch cans is McFadden's. I've used their colors a fair bit. I wish they would add a bit of retarder, but Reranch's product is pretty good - though you do have to watch out for spitting (which is mostly just an issue if you get your finger too far forward as you spray) - and they work pretty well for color coats. Every now and then you have some spitting issues, and have to redo the color coat. I would NEVER use their cans for clear, though. That's just asking for trouble. Also, they only sell sanding sealer, not vinyl sealer, which is (in the climate I live in) a really bad idea. Now, I use McFadden's anyway, so for my sealer I just use what I have in the shop (vinyl, of course), but if you need to recreate an old Fender Custom Color or Blond, their colors are spot on.

And as you say, we do very little refinishing in our shop, and it is almost always just on guitars people stripped themselves before deciding they weren't up for the job. We certainly do make a profit on them when we do them, but we really do go out of our way to avoid refinishing work.

The only place I consistently recommend is Lay's, but I do have to say this - though Gibson will do a half-ass job, their is some value, if you are going to get it refinished (don't, really), to having the work done by the factory. A factory refinish will be less detrimental to the long term value of the guitar, though it will still damage the value. By the by, if you paid $2300 for the guitar, by the time you get it back from refinishing it you can expect the market value to be in the $900-1100 range. Just so as you know.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light makes a good point about resale value. Refinish your guitar and it looses 50% of the resale value.
 
Light said:
Well, frankly I've gotten to the point where I find sprayed sunbursts really blah. One of the guys in my shop does some of the best hand rubbed sunbursts I've ever seen, and I've been fortunate to learn from him, so I kind of like doing those. But that's a whole other thing. (On the other hand, if you've got a fancy maple top, it really does seem like a waste to spray a sunburst, because a hand rubbed burst will look SO much better.)

Oh, and while I agree with you on the whole, the lacquer in the Reranch cans is McFadden's. I've used their colors a fair bit. I wish they would add a bit of retarder, but Reranch's product is pretty good - though you do have to watch out for spitting (which is mostly just an issue if you get your finger too far forward as you spray) - and they work pretty well for color coats. Every now and then you have some spitting issues, and have to redo the color coat. I would NEVER use their cans for clear, though. That's just asking for trouble. Also, they only sell sanding sealer, not vinyl sealer, which is (in the climate I live in) a really bad idea. Now, I use McFadden's anyway, so for my sealer I just use what I have in the shop (vinyl, of course), but if you need to recreate an old Fender Custom Color or Blond, their colors are spot on.

And as you say, we do very little refinishing in our shop, and it is almost always just on guitars people stripped themselves before deciding they weren't up for the job. We certainly do make a profit on them when we do them, but we really do go out of our way to avoid refinishing work.

The only place I consistently recommend is Lay's, but I do have to say this - though Gibson will do a half-ass job, their is some value, if you are going to get it refinished (don't, really), to having the work done by the factory. A factory refinish will be less detrimental to the long term value of the guitar, though it will still damage the value. By the by, if you paid $2300 for the guitar, by the time you get it back from refinishing it you can expect the market value to be in the $900-1100 range. Just so as you know.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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In this case it looks like a solid burst so shooting it would be the way to go. All the bursts I do are hand rubbed. The guy I farm to does both. He's a french polisher by trade and has 40 years experience. He's the only guy I know who can match the quality and look of those early Gibsons. He's simply the best. God is in the detail as far as I'm concerned. Gibson have their nitro formulated so are most of their NGR stains. For anyone who wants to get the same stuff as reraunch here in the UK you can find it here. I've tried it before to see how it goes on. You can get an acceptable finish but not a professional finish.
Manchester Guitar Tech Nitro.
It's not just the nitro however it's the whole thing of having the right equipment and experience that makes a professional finish. I've moved onto Behlen myself recently as I've found a good UK supplier never used to be able to get it here. I'm getting good results with it and their tech department is first rate.
 
Why don't you offer it for trade out there for the same model in a color you like? Good chance someone got a deal on a pink or purple one and would love to get a black one instead. I've done this a couple times with different guitars.
 
Luthier...I really enjoyed your site...especially the building of the G Spot Bass...!! The quilted top Les Paul was great...but my favorite was the Dragon Custom...love that neck inlaid dragon and the color on the axe is awesome!!!

You do some really nice work!!


EDIT: I just finished checking out the making of a Les Paul...it makes one appreciate, the art of making guitars more. Did you sand it down by hand or sanding machine?
 
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Thank you for the kind words true-eurt!:)
Did you sand it down by hand or sanding machine?
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Well, I use whatever will get me where I want to be as fast as possible without introducing compromise. For example, when joining soundboards for flat top acoustics, I'll use my electric jointer table to get the pieces straight but I'll always make the final joint with a handplane that is tuned razor sharp....nothing beats that. So, yes....I would have used a sander for large flat areas (eg. the back) probably also the sides (it's been a while so I don't remember exactly on that guitar) but for the top contours I might start with a sander and then switch to a flexible rubber block and sand by hand.
I can tell you that I wouldn't use the sander on the peghead face for instance because it tends to slightly round off the edges....if you put a straight-edge across the peghead afterwards you'd see that it's not perfectly flat all the way to the edge.
Regards,
Freddy

PS. the les paul that you saw on my site (not the quilted top one, but the other) was a guitar I made for myself. You can check out what it sounds like here:
http://www.myspace.com/luckybastard2
I'm kind of a DIY nut... these are my home recordings. I made the microphones, mic preamps, compressors, guitar amp and cab and of course the lester:D
 
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Micter said:
Light makes a good point about resale value. Refinish your guitar and it looses 50% of the resale value.
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the guitar has sentimental value it will never be resold. and since that sentimental value can't be replaced, there's no need to have a high value for insurance purposes either. i don't care what the paper value of this guitar is really. it's precious to me and that's all that matters.
 
Luthier said:
Thank you for the kind words true-eurt!:)

Well, I use whatever will get me where I want to be as fast as possible without introducing compromise. For example, when joining soundboards for flat top acoustics, I'll use my electric jointer table to get the pieces straight but I'll always make the final joint with a handplane that is tuned razor sharp....nothing beats that. So, yes....I would have used a sander for large flat areas (eg. the back) probably also the sides (it's been a while so I don't remember exactly on that guitar) but for the top contours I might start with a sander and then switch to a flexible rubber block and sand by hand.
I can tell you that I wouldn't use the sander on the peghead face for instance because it tends to slightly round off the edges....if you put a straight-edge across the peghead afterwards you'd see that it's not perfectly flat all the way to the edge.
Regards,
Freddy

PS. the les paul that you saw on my site (not the quilted top one, but the other) was a guitar I made for myself. You can check out what it sounds like here:
http://www.myspace.com/luckybastard2
I'm kind of a DIY nut... these are my home recordings. I made the microphones, mic preamps, compressors, guitar amp and cab and of course the lester:D
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You are welkom Freddy...thank you for the link. Sounds good to me! You have a early 70'ish beatlish flavour to your sound..?
...anyway..that is who I thought of....a british rock sound...and I'm not too sharp at the *naming that band-sound thing!!!*:D
 
Nicole_Rose said:
well, i know how much to save :) and no, it does not exceed the value of the guitar. the guitar cost 2300. it is cheaper to have it repainted than to buy another. (if Gibson will do it. that remains to be seen.)
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That number you quoted is a bit high. Street price for a Goddess is right at $1700, MSRP $2500.

I don't think the economics work in your favor. $1700 + 1300 for a Gibson refinish = $3000, and your guitar would need to become really special over time for it to ever be worth it.

On the other hand, for another $400 you could have two Goddesses.

You didn't ask for my opinion, but like everyone else on this thread, I gave it to you anyway! :)
 
economics seem to have nothing to do with this git so I say go for it ..... get it finished the way you want ...... take pics!
 
Lt. Bob said:
economics seem to have nothing to do with this git so I say go for it ..... get it finished the way you want ...... take pics!
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I think you're right. Hey, it's only money! And I'd rather be buried with a guitar than leftover cash. :D
 
Zaphod B said:
That number you quoted is a bit high. Street price for a Goddess is right at $1700, MSRP $2500.

I don't think the economics work in your favor. $1700 + 1300 for a Gibson refinish = $3000, and your guitar would need to become really special over time for it to ever be worth it.

On the other hand, for another $400 you could have two Goddesses.

You didn't ask for my opinion, but like everyone else on this thread, I gave it to you anyway! :)
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well, don't forget the price was in canadian dollars before our dollar hit parity. and i was including taxes. but i'm not surprised it was overpriced, everything in canada is overpriced :(

the thing is, this guitar is already very special. having another goddess would be stupid. i'd rarely play it. all i'd do is look at it because i liked the colour. it's the guitar i already have that is special so that's the one i want to like the look of.
 
Nicole_Rose said:
well, don't forget the price was in canadian dollars before our dollar hit parity. and i was including taxes. but i'm not surprised it was overpriced, everything in canada is overpriced :(

the thing is, this guitar is already very special. having another goddess would be stupid. i'd rarely play it. all i'd do is look at it because i liked the colour. it's the guitar i already have that is special so that's the one i want to like the look of.
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Well then, as Lt. Bob said, you may as well go for it and make it what you want. Meanwhile, all of us naysayers can just go take a flying fuck at the moon. :D
 
Lt. Bob said:
economics seem to have nothing to do with this git so I say go for it ..... get it finished the way you want ...... take pics!
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the only economics that apply are the ones that allow me to pay for the refinishing job lol. it will take some time to save the necessary funds. but i think this is something i'm going to do. :)
 
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