Can EQ make vocals sound out of tune?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dachay2tnr
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dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

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It never occurred to me that changing eq could make a vocal sound out of tune. But that seems to be happening on a recent project, and when I think it through, I guess it makes some sense. Since tone is made up of a root and harmonics, lowering or raising a specific frequency I guess can change the relationship.

I'm not talking about large changes here. 2-3 db's maybe. But when I eq to get the voice to cut through the mix better, some notes seem to be flat or sharp that weren't before the eq change.

Am I crazy? :confused:
 
Well if your vocals are cutting through the mix better, that means EVERYTHING is going to be heard more clearly - including flaws. It would be a safe bet that the vocals were recorded out of tune and your EQ is making it more evident...
 
Trell Blaze said:
Well if your vocals are cutting through the mix better, that means EVERYTHING is going to be heard more clearly - including flaws. It would be a safe bet that the vocals were recorded out of tune and your EQ is making it more evident...
Click to expand...


I agree... I've never of eq making voice change pitch. All eq does is control volume of specific frequency/ies.

But that is something I want to research now a bit... :D:D:D:D
 
dachay2tnr said:
It never occurred to me that changing eq could make a vocal sound out of tune. But that seems to be happening on a recent project, and when I think it through, I guess it makes some sense. Since tone is made up of a root and harmonics, lowering or raising a specific frequency I guess can change the relationship.

I'm not talking about large changes here. 2-3 db's maybe. But when I eq to get the voice to cut through the mix better, some notes seem to be flat or sharp that weren't before the eq change.

Am I crazy? :confused:
Click to expand...

I dont think so. Interesting though.

Eck
 
I have to agree with everyone else. It's not changing the pitch, just making the problems more obvious.
 
TexRoadkill said:
I have to agree with everyone else. It's not changing the pitch, just making the problems more obvious.
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I wasn't suggesting it was changing the pitch. Just suggesting that it made them "sound" out of key.

I'll check it some more, but I'm pretty certain the part is correct. Just that when it's eq'd a certain way, it sounds off.

Then again, it could simply be the way I'm hearing it.

Anyway, I wondering if anyone had any heard of this before. Apparently not, so I'm guess I'm off base here. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:
 
dachay2tnr said:
I wasn't suggesting it was changing the pitch. Just suggesting that it made them "sound" out of key.

I'll check it some more, but I'm pretty certain the part is correct. Just that when it's eq'd a certain way, it sounds off.

Then again, it could simply be the way I'm hearing it.

Anyway, I wondering if anyone had any heard of this before. Apparently not, so I'm guess I'm off base here. :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:
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Are you the one who is singing?
 
Maybe your EQ is just that bad. But idunno...I don't think even the suckiest of EQs would make a vocal sound out of key...
 
I think there is a point to this. Because no sound, except sine waves, are a single frequency, and certainly overtones that are sort of messed up could give a perception of "out of tune", eq'ing could very well make it sound out of tune.

Inversely though, sometimes EQ makes things sound more in key!

I have seen bands that all tune up, with intonated instruments, to the same tuner, and when they all hit a note together, it sounds horribly out of tune! The tonality of the instrument is really the only thing to account for this.
 
Ford Van said:
I have seen bands that all tune up, with intonated instruments, to the same tuner, and when they all hit a note together, it sounds horribly out of tune! The tonality of the instrument is really the only thing to account for this.
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Maybe because your ears are out of tone?:rolleyes: :D It's either that or the instruments aren't intonated.


Seriously though, eqing is just making the problems sound more apparent.
 
vadoom said:
Are you the one who is singing?
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Yes, but I'm not sure why that is relevant. :confused:


I'm still not fully convinced, but for now I'll accept that the eq is not affecting the intonation.


*edited for typo*
 
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I'd tends to want to agree that the EQ is just revealing flaws and not actually changing the "tuning" of the vocal. Consider these points:

1. If that were happening, every time we used EQ on any instrument, a similar effect would be happening to at least some degree. This would not only be a rare problem to come up on an obscure Internet forum, but it would be a major common attribute of equalization. Yet it's something unheard of until now; nobody uses - or can use - an EQ to change pitch or tuning.

2. Unless you're talking about using an extremely precise parametric with laser-like Q width, the average EQ parameter set is not going to be surgical enough to shift pitch from, say, a 3A to a 3B, for example. Both are going to be boosted or cut by fairly even amounts.

3. The EQ cannot boost what is not there to begin with. If the track truely sounds out of tune with EQ, those out of tune forments would still have to be there to begin with.

It may be possible I suppose that what the OP is hearing is a boosting of a harmonic series, particularly on the odd harmonics, and he's interpreting that as a change in pitch, maybe.

G.
 
While EQ can certainly fuck with phase, I've never encountered what I thought was any kind of pitch shift.
 
Try viewing the pitch before and after, for example with autotune. Then post the results you found.
 
Does it seem to go out of tune when you solo it too??? Or just when it's in the mix?
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
It may be possible I suppose that what the OP is hearing is a boosting of a harmonic series, particularly on the odd harmonics, and he's interpreting that as a change in pitch, maybe.
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This makes some sense to me, and is sort of what I was alluding to in the original post.

Again, I am not suggesting that the actual pitch has changed, just that is "sounds" out of key. In the way that sometimes something actually out of key can still sound musically OK.

Am I making any sense? :o
 
There's no way the pitch is changing, fundimental or harmonics. I think what you're hearing is, as has been said, the illumination of a pitch problem that was there all along. As you said, you were EQing to bring the vocal out in the mix.
The spectral realationship betwen the various components of the voice, fundimentals and harmonics, isn't changing with Eq adjustments, except in level. I also highly doubt that fundimentals are on pitch and the partials aren't. I'm pretty sure the partials are a component of the fundimental, not something that gets created seperately. For most homo sapians, the voice is a monophonic instrument.
What it being your voice has to do with it is that it's much more difficult to accurately appraise your own vocal than someone elses. I'm sure if you took kubeek's advice and compared the vox before and after EQ in AT, you'd see the same 33 cents or whatever in either case.
 
Ford Van said:
I think there is a point to this. Because no sound, except sine waves, are a single frequency, and certainly overtones that are sort of messed up could give a perception of "out of tune", eq'ing could very well make it sound out of tune.

Inversely though, sometimes EQ makes things sound more in key!
Click to expand...

Wow, that's some great stuff, Ford.

No, seriously. :rolleyes:
 
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