balanced v unbalanced

[tc4b]

I'm curious about the most pragmatic assessment possible of balanced v unbalanced. Between micing, rack units, and monitoring mixes, where (if anywhere) will it really help me to shell out for balanced cables. And specifically, how? I'm not a professional, just a guy with a room full of instruments, some cheap mics, and a digi 001 (and some m-audio bx8a monitors). Thanks for your help.

 

[TripleJ]

It really depends on your equipment. Obviously the longer the cable run the bigger gains are to be had from running balanced cables but even with that said you should use balanced cables every chance you get.

My rationale is that they aren't really any more expensive and if you balance everything you can you're cutting out a lot of potential noise in your chain.

Does the digi have balanced ins? I actually own one but I thought they were just TS connections at the back.

 

[tc4b]

So, balanced cuts down on noise? Sounds worth it for vox, though I usually like my guitar, bass and keys to be a little rough. Don't know about the digi, I'll have to check. That's how little I know about the subject. The first time I ever heard there were two types of cables was when I bought my RNC and read that it was unbalanced. The pitfalls of the self-taught working in isolation ,I guess.

 

[Farview]

So, balanced cuts down on noise? Sounds worth it for vox, though I usually like my guitar, bass and keys to be a little rough. Don't know about the digi, I'll have to check. That's how little I know about the subject. The first time I ever heard there were two types of cables was when I bought my RNC and read that it was unbalanced. The pitfalls of the self-taught working in isolation ,I guess.

In order to get any use out of balanced cables, you would have to have a balanced output connected to a balanced input with the balanced cable.

Using a balanced cable with unbalanced i/o doesn't do anything to balance the signal.

Mic cables are balanced, that's why there are three connections. Guitar, bass and keys are unbalanced, you shouldn't use a balanced cable with them. (if your bass or guitar has active circuitry, a balanced cable might not turn on the electronics)

 

[ofajen]

I'm curious about the most pragmatic assessment possible of balanced v unbalanced. Between micing, rack units, and monitoring mixes, where (if anywhere) will it really help me to shell out for balanced cables. And specifically, how? I'm not a professional, just a guy with a room full of instruments, some cheap mics, and a digi 001 (and some m-audio bx8a monitors). Thanks for your help.

Standard mike cables are balanced, assuming you have balanced input (XLR type) mike preamps. If you can keep other cable lengths under 15 feet and use a "star" grounding system for power (basically, everything running off one outlet), you'll probably be fine with unbalanced audio if you just have instruments, a few mikes, a digi 011 and some monitors. If you notice hum showing up in the audio, then you will need to do something else to remove it. Speaker cables are pretty much always unbalanced, but cables to powered monitors could be balanced audio, depending on the type of input on the monitors. Does that help?

Cheers,

Otto

 

[kubeek]

Mic cables are balanced, that's why there are three connections. Guitar, bass and keys are unbalanced, you shouldn't use a balanced cable with them. (if your bass or guitar has active circuitry, a balanced cable might not turn on the electronics)

It is possible to use balanced cable with guitars, but the signal is still not balanced, and it uses TS jacks.
On the guitar side the cold wire is connected to the sleeve and hot to the tip. On the amp side the shield and cold goes to sleeve, and hot to the tip.
This should provide better path for the signal, because the noise doesn´t go through the signal-ground, but has its own path to ground.

 

[Farview]

It is possible to use balanced cable with guitars, but the signal is still not balanced, and it uses TS jacks.
On the guitar side the cold wire is connected to the sleeve and hot to the tip. On the amp side the shield and cold goes to sleeve, and hot to the tip.

That will work fine if you don't have active circuitry. The ring and sleeve need to be connected by the TS plug in order for the electronics to get power from the battery. If you plug a balanced plug in there, the ring and sleeve don't connect and you get no sound.

This should provide better path for the signal, because the noise doesn´t go through the signal-ground, but has its own path to ground.

This is just untrue.

Remember, the cable isn't balanced, the signal is. If the output or input isn't balanced, a TRS cable won't change anything.

 

[drossfile]

Remember, the cable isn't balanced, the signal is. If the output or input isn't balanced, a TRS cable won't change anything.

yeah, i had the hardest time figuring this out awhile back. there's so much confusion about the subject, but it's really pretty simple.

put a balanced cable between an input and an output that are BOTH balanced.

your equipment manual will tell you what ins and outs are balanced. if it says "balanced or unbalanced," then you know it will transmit/receive a balanced signal (but will also accept an unbalanced one, if you choose to send it one).

an unbalanced output puts out an unbalanced signal, so a balanced cable will not balance the signal.

further, a balanced output puts out a balanced signal, which you could send down a balanced cable. but if the other end of that cable is plugged into an unbalanced input, the signal will cease to be balanced at the input, rendering the balanced cable a waste of time and wire.

you should've listened to farview. he said it way quicker.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Here's an easy rule of thumb. If the device plug has 3 contacts then use balanced cables. Unless it is an insert then use an insert cable (3 contact to dual 2 contact).

When in doubt. Use balanced. ALWAYS use balanced cables on mics.