EQing guitars?

[Hi_Flyer]

if i've got two guitar tracks each one panned hard(well, 70 percent) left and right how should i eq it so that the two guitars aren't fighting against each other?

Do i cut some frequences in one guitar and boost them on the other?

is it just a doubled rhythm line or something? or is it two different parts that are supposed to complement each other, like a rhythm and a lead?

if its just a doubled rhythm, then I wouldn't worry about using EQ to seperate the guitars, rather, let them sort of blend together as one. Thats kind of the point of doubled rhythm guitars. In this case you might need to EQ to seperate the guitars (both of them) from other elements of your mix like bass, drums or whatever, but not necessarily seperate them individually from each other...

if its two seperate complementary guitar parts, you might want to try dialing in different tones on the amp, use different pickups, move the mic around the speaker a bit, or even use a different guitar! anything to get a different sound on the two tracks. What most everybody seems to be saying here is to try to capture the right sounds instead of using gobs of digital EQ to fit stuff together.

 

[random effect]

my bass players foot sounds really good man.

 

[XLR]

Too vague.

Post a clip of the gtr tracks.

Stereo file of the two gtrs only... panned 100% L and R
30 seconds long
320 kbps mp3
http://www.lightningmp3.com

Then post a 30 second mix of the song they're going in.

 

[MCI2424]

The first thing to do is get a sound you like out of the amp and guitar. Spend time finding out what will work.
When you are happy with it (amp off the floor) then put a mic (dynamic 57 minimum, 427 great) in front of the speaker. Center it in the middle of the BEST sounding speaker (if you have a 4X cab for instance).

Now, go to the monitors and listen. If you don't like what you hear, move the mic a tad sideway, up or down or in and out. Choose a direction and keep trying.
When you have a decent sound, turn down the gain (distortion) lower than you think you will need.
Finally, record a scratch track with the rest of the band. Analyze the sound in the mix and adjust the distortion gain to get a clean and detailed sound.

This will take a while (like all studios). Most pro studios will take up to an entire day to get the sound right.

Home recording people generally don't take the time to really get a great sound. They tend to throw up a mic and record. Hobbies are usually done with spare time and most seem to not have enough of it these days.

If you really want to make good recordings, spend the time up front to nail the sound and the mix will go so much faster.

BTW: the real sound of an amp can be heard if you use one ear as a "mic" and plug the other ear. Cup one ear and direct the other ear like a mic. Move your ear aroud the cone and put the mic in the location that sounds best. Using both ears in the room does not give a good picture of the amp itself. Too much going on with room reflections and such.

Good Luck!

 

[Farview]

So...I have the guitar sounding the way I want it in the room, set up a mic, hit record, and it sounds like crap. So, let's see what too do ....hey I know! Let's switch the pick up. And you know what, you're right it now sounds completely different - just not the way I wanted it to ....

Having the sound you want in the room is useless. You should be adjusting the tone so it's the sound you want to record. No one listening to the CD will know what it sounded like in the room.

 

[legionserial]

I'd say that the key is not neccessarily to listen to how the amp sounds in the room, but how it sounds coming out of your monitors before you hit record. That is what it will sound like on 'tape'. Chances are it may sound like ass in the room, but if what's coming out of your speakers sounds good, then you've got it.

 

[bkkornaker]

what i personaly like to do is either..............

--cut about 4 db of 400hz (cuts the mudd, darkness)

or.....

---boost 8k by 5-8 db to give your sound overall clarity/brightness.

also use slight compression to overall level the sound, so alot of the frequencies seem to level out.

 

[NTK88]

Alright ... I'll admit that mic positioning is, indeed, very crucial to recording electric guitar.

If your mic is currently pointed at the floor then by all means ... move the mic and point it at the speaker. And you will hear a world of difference.

Similarly, if the mic is currently pointed at the ceiling, up your nostrils, or at your bass players' foot ... then it is absolutely crucial that you move that mic, by all means. And put it on the speaker.

I apologize for being so closed-minded earlier.

.

You really are stupid. Just thought id let you know that.

Oh and as for using 5 or 6 mics on a guitar amp, many people do that and take the 1 track that sounds best in the mix. Different mics, different positions, distances etc all help to create a different sound.

Point the mic at the center of the cone rather than the outer edge of the cone generates two different sounds. Go try it.

 

[bkkornaker]

with mic'ing cabs......sure mic placement will have some effect. I love to use 2 mics (sm57's).........and place one mic right in the center of the cone (not the dustcap, which is the small dome in the center of the speaker) faceing straight on forward.........

now take the 2nd mic.......and place it directly next to that first mic (to the right of it), but angle it ever so slightly so both mic diaphram ends are now touching (eliminates phase issues)......

 

[Simman]

Having the sound you want in the room is useless. You should be adjusting the tone so it's the sound you want to record. No one listening to the CD will know what it sounded like in the room.

Agreed (to a point)...The best result is to have the end-product sound good but you don’t necessarily know exactly when contention might arise at the start. Things might sound good by themselves yet, become blurred when put in the mix. This gets to the crux of trying to fix in the mix vs. retrack. Give the option I would retrack but that’s just me.

However, I believe most everyone has missed the point! The question was my guitar track sounds muddy, should I EQ (paraphrasing). The main point of my original comment was the EQ should be the LAST thing you touch not the first; this is an armature mistake generally caused by lack of experience. There are some givens that one can incorporate during the tracking process and in this instance (guitar), it might be to roll off everything below 80Hz to clear our some of the bottom.

 

[bkkornaker]

The main point of my original comment was the EQ should be the LAST thing you touch not the first; this is an armature mistake generally caused by lack of experience.

Im not sure.......i really dont know any Mix Engineers who "dont use EQ". I know its something we all dont want to "instantly grab the EQ knobs first thing"..........but i dont know of any song or track that hasn't been applied to EQ.........not on a commercial CD anyways..........

dont get me wrong.....its always best to "track" it good, so we dont have to rely on fixing it with EQ.......but at some point....EQ will be applied to it for some reason or another........

 

[LIMiT]

ok-

if you have the option to re-track:

turn on the amp...unplug the patch cord from the guitar (you'll hear that 'hummmmzzzz' sound. Put your ear up to the speaker(s)..find where it's loudest. Start by placing your 57 there.
Plug the cable back ito the guitar,..put on a set of good isolation headphones and play (try not to do this for too long). If it souds too muddy..move the mic slightly off axis away from that 'sweet spot'. play again. You'll notice tonal differences with even the slightest move. Find the position where it sounds best to you.

Take a break (let your ears and brain re-focus.)

If you have a 2nd mic to play with (I like the e609), and a friend that can help - try this.
While you have the 57 set up perfect (and monitoring in mono through your headphones), have your friend move the 2nd mic around the same speaker. You'll hear phasing (ie your 57 may sound thin)...which is not good. Listen for the spot where the 2nd mic is adding to that sound you like. If you hear it. Tell your friend to stop. Leave the mic there.

Take another break.

When you come back ...pan 1 mic hard left...the other hard right..and play. Make minor adjustments from there.

(Another flavour is to have access to a LDC like a 441...placed back from the amp (3:1 rule applies big time) to capture more 'air' and high end from the otherwise close mic'ed (prox effect) mics on the grill.


If you're stuck with your recorded trax...then 1 option is to EQ. Exact frequencies to suggest would be meaningless without hearing the entire mix.

Start with getting the bass guitar, drums, and vox as close to perfect as you can ...then bring up the guitars. What do they step on. Usually...snare, vox, and bass guitar. Start rolling off some of the lows until you hear the bass guitar again. Then look for any other problems that can be handled with cutting frequencies.
Finally...if yo uso wish..and like so many of the modern sounding guitars on todays songs.. you can crank the 5k-8k area to brighten the hell out of them. (Again...this all depends on what else is going on in the mix)


Hope this gave you some ideas.

Cheers,

-LIMiT

 

[Simman]

Im not sure.......i really dont know any Mix Engineers who "dont use EQ". I know its something we all dont want to "instantly grab the EQ knobs first thing"..........but i dont know of any song or track that hasn't been applied to EQ.........not on a commercial CD anyways..........

dont get me wrong.....its always best to "track" it good, so we dont have to rely on fixing it with EQ.......but at some point....EQ will be applied to it for some reason or another........

I'm not implying that, at some point, you will not end up using EQ. I am simply suggesting that it not be the FIRST solution.

 

[THX1136]

When you say it sounds muddy are you meaning within the context of the whole song?

 

[chessrock]

You guys act like mic'ing a guitar cab is in some way a delicate task.


Come on.

It's a fuching speaker. Okay?

It's not that big or spread out.

It's usually no more than the size of a very small vaccum cleaner. No, I take that back ... most vaccum cleaners are worlds bigger than a typical speaker in a guitar cab.

Honestly, this is painful for me to have to say this ... but a drum set ... is generally very complex to record. You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference. On something like a drum set. Just so we're clear on this.

Accoustic guitar? Vocals? Same thing. An inch will make a world of difference. But guys ... a guitar cab speaker is nothing. I hate to shatter your world and all, but it's a fucking speaker. Me and your three-year-old daughter / sister / niece ... we eat guitar cab speakers for breakfast. Like a bowl of shredded wheat or fruit loops. You have this little speaker in front of you ... you stick a mic on it, and as long as you're not freking dumb, you should be fine, and your world of recording should be all fine and dandy from that point on. Unless, of course, you are a complete and utter moron. Something that I realize is a reality in far too many cases on a discussion board for idiots like this one.

If figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge ... or something that requires even the most minute strain of energy in a single brain cell of your neural network ...

... then give it up! You're not cut out for this shit. Okay? I don't know how else to tell you this. But for the sake of all that is holy ... drop this shit. Now. Thank you.

.

 

[bkkornaker]

sure, i hear ya.......its just tough not to use EQ, cause alot of the time....we cant simply go back and re-record/re-track to fix the sound.......and it could be the only corrective solution to use at that point.

alot of people think they should avoid the EQ as much as possible, but for me.......(with the right EQ), you can work some magic!

 

[NTK88]

You guys act like mic'ing a guitar cab is in some way a delicate task.


Come on.

It's a fucking speaker. Okay?

It's not that big or spread out.

It's usually no more than the size of a very small vaccum cleaner. No, I take that back ... most vaccum cleaners are worlds bigger than a typical speaker in a guitar cab.

Honestly, this is painful for me to have to say this ... but a drum set ... is generally very complex to record. You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference. On something like a drum set. Just so we're clear on this.

Accoustic guitar? Vocals? Same thing. An inch will make a world of difference. But guys ... a guitar cab speaker is nothing. I hate to shatter your world and all, but it's a fucking speaker. Me and your three-year-old daughter / sister / niece ... we eat guitar cab speakers for breakfast. Like a bowl of shredded wheat or fruit loops. You have this little speaker in front of you ... you stick a mic on it, and as long as you're not fucking retarted or an idiot savant, you should be fine, and your world of recording should be all fine and dandy from that point on. And you really need to move on to bigger and better things in life from that point forware -- provided you are not a complet, utter MORON.

It's not that complex. Not a lot of square centimeters to cover ... and if figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge ... or something that requires even the most minute strain of energy in a single brain cell of your neural network ...

... then give it up! You'r enot cut out for this shit. Okay? I don't know how else to tell you this. But for the sake of all that is holy ... drop this shit. Now. Thank you.

.

Different placements = different sound. Period.
Obviously not a world of difference, but point the mic towards the outer edge of the cone rather than the inner edge will capture more bass, placing dead center on the grill will capture a more harsh, crunchy sound, and coming from the center of the left side of the cone off axis toward the inner edge of the cone captrues an even balance of bassier tone and crunch.

Who on earth said anything about this taking every single nueron?
Stating that placement affects sound isnt saying that finding the right spot to mic a guitar cab is the hardest thing on earth.

 

[bkkornaker]

You guys act like mic'ing a guitar cab is in some way a delicate task.


Come on.

It's a fucking speaker. Okay?

It's not that big or spread out.

It's usually no more than the size of a very small vaccum cleaner. No, I take that back ... most vaccum cleaners are worlds bigger than a typical speaker in a guitar cab.

Honestly, this is painful for me to have to say this ... but a drum set ... is generally very complex to record. You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference. On something like a drum set. Just so we're clear on this.

Accoustic guitar? Vocals? Same thing. An inch will make a world of difference. But guys ... a guitar cab speaker is nothing. I hate to shatter your world and all, but it's a fucking speaker. Me and your three-year-old daughter / sister / niece ... we eat guitar cab speakers for breakfast. Like a bowl of shredded wheat or fruit loops.

It's not that complex. Not a lot of square centimeters to cover ... and if figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge ... or something that requires even the most minute strain of energy in a single brain cell of your neural network ...

... then give it up! You'r enot cut out for this shit. Okay? I don't know how else to tell you this. But for the sake of all that is holy ... drop this shit. Now. Thank you.

.

LOL.....but chessrock......."{drums}You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference." "{guitar speaker}Not a lot of square centimeters to cover ... and if figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge"

are you saying a 12 or 14in snare drum is tougher to mic (capture) than a 12in speaker?.........moving the mic on a snare drum will yield wide array of different tones...from bright, to mellow. BUt moving a mic around a speaker will not do the same?

 

[Sonixx]

You guys act like mic'ing a guitar cab is in some way a delicate task.


Come on.

It's a fucking speaker. Okay?

It's not that big or spread out.

It's usually no more than the size of a very small vaccum cleaner. No, I take that back ... most vaccum cleaners are worlds bigger than a typical speaker in a guitar cab.

Honestly, this is painful for me to have to say this ... but a drum set ... is generally very complex to record. You should be stressing out about every inch that your mics might be off, because yes, it will make a difference. On something like a drum set. Just so we're clear on this.

Accoustic guitar? Vocals? Same thing. An inch will make a world of difference. But guys ... a guitar cab speaker is nothing. I hate to shatter your world and all, but it's a fucking speaker. Me and your three-year-old daughter / sister / niece ... we eat guitar cab speakers for breakfast. Like a bowl of shredded wheat or fruit loops. You have this little speaker in front of you ... you stick a mic on it, and as long as you're not fucking retarted or an idiot savant, you should be fine, and your world of recording should be all fine and dandy from that point on. Unless, of course, you are a complete and utter moron. Something that I realize is a reality in far too many cases on a discussion board for idiots like this one.

If figuring out the best positioning of a mic on a guitar cab speaker is in any way a challenge ... or something that requires even the most minute strain of energy in a single brain cell of your neural network ...

... then give it up! You're not cut out for this shit. Okay? I don't know how else to tell you this. But for the sake of all that is holy ... drop this shit. Now. Thank you.

.

you're a TROLLing... and not even a very good one.

 

[chessrock]

If you seriously have to move a mic to the outter edge of a speaker cone in order to have a usable guitar tone ...

... Holy shit. Fuck me. That must be one seriously FUCKED UP sounding guitar cab.

And you should do yourself a favor and run out to the nearest junk yard and ... no, that might actually be a cruel thing to do the poor unsespecting junk yard workers.

So how about you just burn that piece of crap guitar amp of yours and do the world a favor? Seriously. If you honestly can look me straight in the face and say ... "Chessrock, I get a slammin' guitar track ... as long as I move it to the very outter rim of the fucking speaker" ... then seriously. I'll give you like a thousand bucks.

Give me that magic speaker of yours that only sounds good in that 1/10th of a centimeter squre inch or whatever of space ... and I'll send that little, tiny bit of usable audio space to the fucking Smithsonian institution. Right next to Jimmy Hendrix's ashes or whatever .... And no. I'm not trolling. Do I look like I'm trolling? ? I've never been more serisous about anything in my fucking life. If you listen to nothing else I've said in my sad existance, I hope you can at least consider an ouce of what I'm saying to you about this subject.

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