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mrface2112
Well-known member
bump, just so no one forgets about this........
mshilarious
Banned
Judging is done; results should be up in the next day or so . . .
Freudian Slip
New member
Sorry for the delay. I decided I wanted one more listen after seeing mshilarious numbers.
It's a tough job judging these because there are so many very good mixes.
I know it sounds like BS but, it's true!
Anyway MHS has my numbers now so he will crunch and we'll get back to you.
F.S.
It's a tough job judging these because there are so many very good mixes.
I know it sounds like BS but, it's true!
Anyway MHS has my numbers now so he will crunch and we'll get back to you.
F.S.
mshilarious
Banned
And here it is!
I guess I don't have a lot to say, I mean there is a lot I could say, but I will just let the scores speak for themselves. We did DQ StudioMxPx because we felt we couldn't be fair without vocals. I thought that could have been a top five mix, but there is no way I could assume any vocal treatment, good or bad, so there you go.
And the scores:
I guess I don't have a lot to say, I mean there is a lot I could say, but I will just let the scores speak for themselves. We did DQ StudioMxPx because we felt we couldn't be fair without vocals. I thought that could have been a top five mix, but there is no way I could assume any vocal treatment, good or bad, so there you go.
And the scores:
Fishmed
Well-known member
Now that the judging is done, what are some of the things you did that you felt was very important to you while mixing the song?
Also, how many people used samples to replace or augment the drums?
Also, how many people used samples to replace or augment the drums?
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mrface2112
Well-known member
wow, i'm really kinda surprised. i didn't expect that a rough mix on this would get me anywhere near in the ballpark. i'm really pleasantly surprised.
that said, i do have a minor math quibble........me thinks mine should add up to 51 rather than 49, unless there's something here in the point scale i'm missing (which is likely the case). zed's should be 51 too. or is there a floating 2 points or something (kinda like getting points for just putting your name on your SATs?
)
anyway, this was a LOT of fun.......now i just wish i'd spent a little more time on it!
fishmed, no samples in mine. just real drums--or drums as they were in the downloaded tracks. i can tell from listening to finster's that i seriously suspect that there's at least a kick sample in there "helping out". all's fair in mixing these days.
personally, i just put all the faders up to unity and it sounded pretty good (after normalizing the track levels). i switched over to mono (i always do the bulk of my mixing in mono), focused on getting a good kick/snare drum relationship and then added in the bass and then guitars. when i got everything sounding good in mono (balances and panning), i switched over to stereo and tweaked a little more (mostly in panning). i didn't do much effects work at all--just a little reverb on the vocals and drums.
mostly i wanted to make sure that the guitars had some ass to them and didn't mask the bass guitar, and give the low end some punch. then i compressed the snot out of the 2-bus, which seems to be quite common in this style of music.
given more time i would've "supported" the kick with samples and probably replaced the snare altogether.
cheers,
wade
that said, i do have a minor math quibble........me thinks mine should add up to 51 rather than 49, unless there's something here in the point scale i'm missing (which is likely the case). zed's should be 51 too. or is there a floating 2 points or something (kinda like getting points for just putting your name on your SATs?
) anyway, this was a LOT of fun.......now i just wish i'd spent a little more time on it!
fishmed, no samples in mine. just real drums--or drums as they were in the downloaded tracks. i can tell from listening to finster's that i seriously suspect that there's at least a kick sample in there "helping out". all's fair in mixing these days.
personally, i just put all the faders up to unity and it sounded pretty good (after normalizing the track levels). i switched over to mono (i always do the bulk of my mixing in mono), focused on getting a good kick/snare drum relationship and then added in the bass and then guitars. when i got everything sounding good in mono (balances and panning), i switched over to stereo and tweaked a little more (mostly in panning). i didn't do much effects work at all--just a little reverb on the vocals and drums.
mostly i wanted to make sure that the guitars had some ass to them and didn't mask the bass guitar, and give the low end some punch. then i compressed the snot out of the 2-bus
, which seems to be quite common in this style of music. given more time i would've "supported" the kick with samples and probably replaced the snare altogether.
cheers,
wade
mshilarious
Banned
That's rounding error. Your average category scores aren't actually integers; since it's an average of two judges' scores, there are lots of 0.5s in there.
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mrface2112
Well-known member
thanks, that makes a lot of sense. i was wondering how 51/7 = 49. i thought i maybe flunked elementary math after all.
if it's not too much trouble and if it's not too much to ask, if you had any "thoughts" or "notes" with respect to the various mixes, would you mind posting them? it'd be curious to hear what y'all thought.
cheers,
wade
i was wondering how 51/7 = 49. i thought i maybe flunked elementary math after all. if it's not too much trouble and if it's not too much to ask, if you had any "thoughts" or "notes" with respect to the various mixes, would you mind posting them? it'd be curious to hear what y'all thought.
cheers,
wade
Fishmed
Well-known member
When I did my mix, the drums and bass balance was the most important although the kick was tough to get the way I wanted it, but I did not resort to samples.
The vocals came next. I let the BG vocals sit under the main vocals, so I guess it came out more like a chorus effect which was not my intention. I know I left the plosives in there. I removed them in a different mix, but it that mix turned out to be too muddy, so I just defaulted back to my first one.
I thought the guitars sounded good, so it was just a matter of adjusting the levels at certain points in the song. I like for guitars to sound fat and not harsh. I know that many people mixed them real strong in the song, but I felt the vocals were more important, but of course that is just me.
Of everyboy's mix, Jerberson12 was my favorite. Great production work!
The vocals came next. I let the BG vocals sit under the main vocals, so I guess it came out more like a chorus effect which was not my intention. I know I left the plosives in there. I removed them in a different mix, but it that mix turned out to be too muddy, so I just defaulted back to my first one.
I thought the guitars sounded good, so it was just a matter of adjusting the levels at certain points in the song. I like for guitars to sound fat and not harsh. I know that many people mixed them real strong in the song, but I felt the vocals were more important, but of course that is just me.
Of everyboy's mix, Jerberson12 was my favorite. Great production work!
Freudian Slip
New member
I took some basic notes on everyones mixes if anyone is interested.
I know I am asking for it, but the number scales only say low end good or bad, not too much or too little.
F.S.
I know I am asking for it, but the number scales only say low end good or bad, not too much or too little.
F.S.
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Id say Briefcase should have won. He managed to get the best overall balance.
The guitars were a bit hard to mix as they weren't recorded very well (not that I can do anything remotely better myself) but Briefcase managed to get them sounding half decent.
Eck
The guitars were a bit hard to mix as they weren't recorded very well (not that I can do anything remotely better myself) but Briefcase managed to get them sounding half decent.
Eck
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
I'm still waiting on your view on my low mids.
If you have any more notes Id be very happy to hear them.
Cheers for judging.
Eck
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Why replace that snare, its a beautifully recorded snare, and the hits were all pretty consistent also.
Eck
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Finsters mix had great energy but there the guitars were too harsh and grainy sounding. Sounds like he didn't use any EQ on the guitars maybe.
Listening back my mix is a bit pish in the low mids. I was taking advice from folk on another thread about my low mids (290Hz roughly) so I added a tad more into this mix but went a bit over the top to say the least.
Now ID say PCPITO should have won. The kick may be a tad loud, but he got a nice clean mix with controlled low mids, and guitars that stand out but aren't as harsh as other mixes.
All good mixes.
Eck
Listening back my mix is a bit pish in the low mids. I was taking advice from folk on another thread about my low mids (290Hz roughly) so I added a tad more into this mix but went a bit over the top to say the least.
Now ID say PCPITO should have won. The kick may be a tad loud, but he got a nice clean mix with controlled low mids, and guitars that stand out but aren't as harsh as other mixes.
All good mixes.
Eck
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Freudian Slip
New member
I'm still waiting on your view on my low mids.
If you have any more notes Id be very happy to hear them.
Cheers for judging.
Eck
I've got down that your mix sounded a bit scooped, the kick was too wide on the bottom and that your vocals were nice.
Freudian Slip
New member
Now that the judging is done I will give a couple things that aren't on the score sheet that I found in alot of the mixes.
Boxy lead vox where in around 75% ofthe mixes. Likely due to too much in the 250hz area.
Same goes for the drums ringing into the breaks (75% that is). There was an unattractive drum ring (I am assuming floor tom) trailing into the breaks that the majority of mixes left in. Maybe it's just me but it stood out like a sore thumb and robbed the tightness from the mix. I feel it should have been edited out manually or by means of a gate.
The flanged guitar parts. Most people let it go with two guitars panned equally as would seem natural, but causing a odd fluctuating phase cancelation. The top two mixes pretty much handled this the same way. Dropping one guitar big time or cutting it out all together. I really appretiated the balls involved in handling the issue and straying from what would seem to have been naturally intended or the normal doubled guitar panning technique.
All I have for now.
F.S.
Boxy lead vox where in around 75% ofthe mixes. Likely due to too much in the 250hz area.
Same goes for the drums ringing into the breaks (75% that is). There was an unattractive drum ring (I am assuming floor tom) trailing into the breaks that the majority of mixes left in. Maybe it's just me but it stood out like a sore thumb and robbed the tightness from the mix. I feel it should have been edited out manually or by means of a gate.
The flanged guitar parts. Most people let it go with two guitars panned equally as would seem natural, but causing a odd fluctuating phase cancelation. The top two mixes pretty much handled this the same way. Dropping one guitar big time or cutting it out all together. I really appretiated the balls involved in handling the issue and straying from what would seem to have been naturally intended or the normal doubled guitar panning technique.
All I have for now.
F.S.
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mrface2112
Well-known member
eck, i completely agree with you on both points--it's well recorded and played quite consistently (as was the kick for that matter).........but from a production side of things i didn't find that the pitch (sound/tone/etc) of the snare complimented the song as well as it could have. i would've chosen a different snare (or tuned it differently) if i'd been in charge, but that's just me.
and i LIKED the flanging on the guitars--i thought it gave the guitars some personality. same with the "chorusy" bg vocal parts. just goes to show what different ears hear differently in terms of production.
toms in my mix were gated out of habit (and speed). i prefer to (and tend to) edit them b/c it sounds more natural, but these toms were pretty easy to gate without it sounding overly so and i was in a hurry, so......FS and MSH, i'd love to hear what notes you had on mine. PM me if you'd like and have the time (or post em here, either way works for me
).cheers,
wade
Freudian Slip
New member
eck, i completely agree with you on both points--it's well recorded and played quite consistently (as was the kick for that matter).........but from a production side of things i didn't find that the pitch (sound/tone/etc) of the snare complimented the song as well as it could have. i would've chosen a different snare (or tuned it differently) if i'd been in charge, but that's just me.
and i LIKED the flanging on the guitars--i thought it gave the guitars some personality. same with the "chorusy" bg vocal parts. just goes to show what different ears hear differently in terms of production.
FS and MSH, i'd love to hear what notes you had on mine. PM me if you'd like and have the time (or post em here, either way works for me
cheers,
wade
OK Here's my notes on yours. Let me prefface them by saying alot of this is taste & that I did not make alot of positive comments in my notes about anyones mix.
"nice snare & Impact, Vocals are distant with a bit much verb at the begining. Nice doubling. Bit much verb on floor tom could be tom its self. Good balance.
Toms are rumbley."
I assume from my notes that you either verbed the floor tom or had a bit of a loose gate there and that I think you should have moved your hi-pass further up the freq range than you did on the toms, if in fact you used one. you could boost mids ad get about the same thing. I sometimes do both.
I am going by memory.
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mrface2112
Well-known member
Thanks!
IMO, it's ALL "taste". that's the fun about these things--seeing what ~20 people do with the same canvas.
vocals and floor tom DO have a bit much verb on em. doesn't seem too overbearing on the vocals except at the start of the song--the rest of the song the verb's nicely "masked". normally (given more time) i'd automate the verb so that doesn't happen. make it seem "drier" where the vocals poke out and wetter when there's more "stuff" happening.
i verbed all the toms to give them an added sense of depth--again, it pokes out too much in some cases, on the floor tom most noticibly (and on the high tom in the big "around the kit" roll towards the end of the song).
i did HP the toms (i always HP anything that doesn't need low end--just a good habit to be in), but outside of that i didn't eq the toms at all. they could certainly use some shoring up as, as you noted, they were a little rumbly in places and the gate on the floor was a little fiddly.
glad to know that you didn't find too much more than that which i found on subsequent listens--i can say that i agree with your "notes" on every point. this says to me that i'm not hearing things too overly "wrong" in my room. these things are good things, said the cat in the hat.
i really wish i'd been able to devote more time to this one--i wanted to remix to fix a couple of the spots i'd found, but as i was holding everything up anyway, i went with mix #1.
thanks again for taking the time to judge and for giving me some feedback!
cheers,
wade
mshilarious
Banned
I think I will just make general comments.
I didn't give anybody over a 7 on Air/Top End. Mostly that was because there were a lot of dark mixes. On the other hand, there were a few that were too bright in the presence range. If you know me, you'd know I HATE accumulation in that range, especially where cymbals, snare, and guitars are fighting for space with click and vocals. One of the top mixes, probably the biggest disagreement between the judges, was one I found painfully present.
I didn't hear a lot of "air" in hardly any mix; that is probably a reflection of the tracks themselves; I don't recall from when I played with them.
I didn't focus too much on little things, even though a good mix is a hundred little things done right. That is because the top mixes were separated from the rest not by little things but big things, basics like having the drumkit in balance with itself, and having lows under control.
It sounded like people put a lot of time into guitar tones. That all worked out OK. Really, a guitar tone can be almost anything IF it fits with the rest of the mix. I liked most of the guitar tones, but not all of the mix choices. I was not crazy about most of the vocal verbs, they tended to be too wet when the rest of the band sounded like it was in a small room.
The top mixes had good verbs, that was a big standout factor along with tight lows and a kit in balance. Whatever the other differences are in the top five or six, those factors were in common for all of them.
Two of the bottom mixes had pumping bus compressors. Really, if you are just starting out mixing, don't put anything on the stereo bus at all. You will hinder your progress.
I didn't give anybody over a 7 on Air/Top End. Mostly that was because there were a lot of dark mixes. On the other hand, there were a few that were too bright in the presence range. If you know me, you'd know I HATE accumulation in that range, especially where cymbals, snare, and guitars are fighting for space with click and vocals. One of the top mixes, probably the biggest disagreement between the judges, was one I found painfully present.
I didn't hear a lot of "air" in hardly any mix; that is probably a reflection of the tracks themselves; I don't recall from when I played with them.
I didn't focus too much on little things, even though a good mix is a hundred little things done right. That is because the top mixes were separated from the rest not by little things but big things, basics like having the drumkit in balance with itself, and having lows under control.
It sounded like people put a lot of time into guitar tones. That all worked out OK. Really, a guitar tone can be almost anything IF it fits with the rest of the mix. I liked most of the guitar tones, but not all of the mix choices. I was not crazy about most of the vocal verbs, they tended to be too wet when the rest of the band sounded like it was in a small room.
The top mixes had good verbs, that was a big standout factor along with tight lows and a kit in balance. Whatever the other differences are in the top five or six, those factors were in common for all of them.
Two of the bottom mixes had pumping bus compressors. Really, if you are just starting out mixing, don't put anything on the stereo bus at all. You will hinder your progress.