brand new to recording, but not to songwriteing

[bellsnbones]

So help me out here guys, whats the bare minimum i can get away with for a decent demo?

im thinking: a double miked acoustic gutiar with vocal tracks recorded sepperate? would a single mike on the guitar do well enough?

thanks in addvance,

 

[rory]

New to spelling???



Anyway.... I'd try micing the acoustic both ways. I've had plenty of success with a single mic. Depends what you where you want to go with the sound. I doubt you'll gain THAT much or that extra WOW with an extra mic, but you might. Try it. If it were me, I'd do the vox separately.

 

[Nick98338]

I too, have produced many fine recordings using one mic on an acoustic guitar. Actually, my favorite technique is recording two different guitars, separately, using the same one mic for each track. Then, I add vocals and other parts that are recorded separately using, you guessed it, that same, one mic. For the last year, I have used an AT3035 or an SP C1. I can't decide which I like more for the guitars. I'm sure that I like the C1 for the vocals. I'm planning to purchase a new Peluso small diaphram mic soon. But, no matter which mic I use, I'll probably use one at a time.

 

[Robert D]

If you're talking about just 2 or 3 songs, I'd try it four ways if you have three mics and channels, or three ways if you only have two mics or channels:

Single mic guitar track, seperate vocal take

Single mic guitar track, simultanious vocal take

Double mic guitar track, seperate vocal take

Double mic guitar track, simultanious vocal take

Some acoustic guitar/vocal performances have a certain feel that is lost when the vocal is done seperately. You lose seperation which makes mixing it a little harder, but if the performance loses something by seperating them, then I'll take performance over seperation any day. I'd be supprised if you don't prefer stereo, or at least two mics if not really stereo, on the guitar. On such a sparse arrangement, it makes a big difference. Also, consider doing a second take of guitar if that doesn't violate your concept for the project.

Have fun!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If all you're making as a decent demo - i.e., if all you need to record is a demo disc for avertising yourself, instead of spending $700-$1000 or more for some entry-level gear and a few score hours learning how to make it sound passable, I'd spend half that time practicing your ass off on getting your performance tighter than Jennifer Lopez's Levi's, then spend $300 for four hours in a good sounding, pro-fitted live room with gear that costs as much as your home mortgage, and (most important) piloted by an experienced engineer that knows how get with one mic and one take what most of us can't do with three mics over ten takes, and understands your sound and both what you need and are looking for. For half the time and 40% less investment, you'll get much better results.

If you do what to do it yourself as the start in an investment into your own independent recording future (hobby or semi-pro), still spend the time to get your performnce perfect first. Imagine JLo put on her tight jeans a week ago and has been soaking in a hot tub with them on ever since. That's how tight you want your performance to be before you even hit that record button for the first time. Your performance and your sound will be 90% of the quality of the sound of your recording. Get the songs DOWN. Get braind new strings on your guitar and re-tune it after each take.

The remaining 10% will be your environment and your gear. Pick a big, good sounding room to record in. Not your bedroom. Maybe a nice rehersal hall or chapel. Take an EV RE20 microphone, an ART Digital MPA preamp, S/PDIF interface card for your computer, one XLR cable and one S/PDIF cable with you. Set up the RE20 to grab your guitar and your voice simultaneously (with some good room verb bleeding in because you're not close-miking), plugged into the ART preamp for gain and impedance control, and S/PDIF'd out of there into your computer for recording into Audacity or Reaper (recording and editing freeware and donationware, respectively, both available leagally and for free on the Internet.) The whole package, about $750-$800 (+/-) if you get a package discount from a reputable rep, and you'll have a pretty darn good and easy to use set of starter gear that won't obsoltete itself anytime soon, and will fit in to future plans very well, should they come up. And most important, you'll have a very fine demo recording when you're done.

Don't worry about stereo, multi-miking and all that. A mono recording on a decent mike set up well and run through a clean, decent qaality signal chain will give you a much better sound and demo than a fancy stereo, multitracked mix that was tracked through a pair of k3wl-looking but cheap condensor mics run through a Wal Mart preamp/interface box.

G.

 

[chessrock]

What Southside meant to say was ...

1) Go to a studio if you really want it to sound good.

2) Do it yourself if it isn't overly crucial, and you think it might be fun. In that instance, here are your steps:

a) Grab a mic.
b) Point it at your instrument and/or your face (depending on which your tracking).
c) Hit record.

3) He has kind of an odd, teenage-like fixation on Jennifer Lopez and blue jeans.


I also do cliffnotes for Shakespear's Othello ... Henry Darger's "The Story of the Vivian Girls," and L.Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth," if you're interested.

.
.

 

[danny.guitar]

I'd have to 2nd Glenn's post.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What Southside meant to say was ...

Don't put words into my mouth, jackass. That's twice you've done that. Strike two, Keith R.

I said what I meant to say, and I meant to say what I said. Which bears about the same resembelance to your "See Spot run" tripe as JLo does to a bobblehead doll of JLo.

He has kind of an odd, teenage-like fixation on Jennifer Lopez and blue jeans.

I'll take that anyday over your obsession with Ed Rei and his penis preferences.

G.

 

[chessrock]

We should go have beer sometime, Southside.

You could sit there and pontificate, while I paraphrase. It would be great fun.

-- Keith

 

[elementary]

While Glen's post is probably the best solution, if you want to do things on the cheap, just for the experience, buy a small firewire audio interface like this one http://www.imuso.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?StockCode=ST00556
and a pair of MSH mics. Download Reaper - its a useful recording program thats very reasonably priced. As Glen says, take them to a big, good sounding room and then experiment with different mic placements, close, far, one on guitar one on vocals, stereo pair etc.

If you go this route and don't like the results, you might still have enough cash left to go to a good studio and have the tracks done professionally.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

We should go have beer sometime, Southside.

You could sit there and pontificate, while I paraphrase. It would be great fun.

-- Keith

I'll be happy to show you how we pontificate on the south side. In fact, I'm working tech at a gig tonight at a biker bar on 111th, just down the road from Al Capone's grave. You're welcome to come on down for some good ol' south side pontification. You'll be paraphrasing in your pants long before I have you quoting verbatim all over the floor. And you'd be saving me the bother of making another trip up to Milwaukee Ave for any possible strike three.

G.

 

[chessrock]

All this first and last name stuff ... coupled with the dropping of locations, etc. etc.

I mean, it's cute. Little Glenny just discovered Google.

But it also kinda' creeps me out. Kind of like a stalker. Maybe if you were accross the continent or something ... but you're like within striking distance, and this kinda' stuff just makes me kind of uncomfortable. Especially when dealing with Southsiders.

I'd like it if you didn't do that. There's a reason I fly incognito on sites like this. This site is for fun and games -- don't let an annoying internet persona drive you in to winding up on the 6:00 news. That's not the intent.

Not cool, bro. Strike one on you.

.

 

[InternetH3ro]

I may be new, but I have to echo chessrock's sentiments. You're hitting a little close to home, and in this day and age, that just ain't cool.

To respond to the OP, I look at demos as more "organized collections of ideas" than actual songs. If all you have to record are acoustic guitars and vocals, I would spring for a decent condenser mic, possibly an acoustic pickup, and some kind of firewire interface for your computer (I really like the Presonus Inspire 1394). You really can record on the cheap these days, if you know how to look for deals. And if you get a firewire interface, chances are it'll come bundled with some kind of recording software (the Inspire comes with Cubase LE).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

All this first and last name stuff ... coupled with the dropping of locations, etc. etc.

I mean, it's cute. Little Glenny just discovered Google.

Excuse, me, but you provided the information yourself, via your own public website, Keith. You made the information public yourself, including your full address, telephone number, and e-mail address( which I have not, and do not plan to, re-release myself). I have not provided any information to anyone that you have not already released to the entire public Internet yourself. And the only reason I even found it was because you provided your Nowhere Radio link to this very forum a couple of weeks ago. So no real searching, let alone staking, is even required. You provided me and the rest of the world with everything yourself, quite willingly. And you're the one who told me long ago that you live in Bucktown, who's major uptown thoroughfare just happens to be the one I mentioned. Note that I have kept the real sensitive information off this board; there are limits to decency. I have not given your actual real address or phone number, nor do I plan to.

Besides, all I did was level the playing field. Everybody here knows my name, where I live and how to find me and contact me. Because unlike you and your sociopathic online "persona", I am the real deal and have no reason to hide from who I am.

If I were the kind of nut case you are lamely and (yet again) wrongly trying to paint me to be, do you really think I'd be purposely leaving those kinds of bread crumbs lying in plain sight? On purpose? No, instead I'd be assuming a fake online personna and trying to hide my identity, and be getting pissed off when it was found and flaunted. Kind of like you...

But it also kinda' creeps me out. Kind of like a stalker. Maybe if you were accross the continent or something ... but you're like within striking distance, and this kinda' stuff just makes me kind of uncomfortable. I'd like it if you didn't do that.

Ahhh, so you're getting an idea of how it feels finally, eh, Keith? Getting a taste of your own medicine?

For the past 2+ years I have had someone from the same city dogging my every move on the BBS, attacking my character, integrity, social status, and every other trait that you've been able to come up with, just because you don't like the fact that I actually try and answer questions and enjoy discussing the sport of home recording instead of taking your view that anybody who asks a question must be too stupid to deserve an answer.

Do you have any idea how creepy that is? Do you have any idea as to just how smarmy and scaly and untrustworthy you come across to the rest of the world? Do you have any idea how it feels when there's a guy who lives just a couple of miles away from me who knows my real name and contact information, but who has been hiding his, and has been stalking my answers and attacking them all over this board for over two years now? A guy who I have no idea when he might want to take it from cyberspace to real life?

Well, maybe now you do, my friend. Maybe now that you know how it feels, you might understand that I,too, "would like it if you didn't do that". I only did what I had to, not out of supposed "fun and games" like you erroneously claim this board to be about, but out of an interest in perceived self-preservation.

Quid pro quo, my friend. You back off, and I will too. You either change your attitude about my being on this board and contributing the way I do, and back off the constant barrage of personal attacks (which you almost always start yourself), or go find yourself another BBS, or just put me on your ignore list if you just find me too offensive to read on your computer screen. In return, I'll stop giving you a taste of your own medicine back.

@InterentHero. I can understand how you might get the impression that you did, but you're right, you are new here, and you haven't experienced the last two years of his bird-dogging me across this board, far more than he has done with any other regular member here. It went from seeming purlely childish and adolescent to being full-bore uncomfortable. I'm only doing what I had to do to try and put that idiotic and frankly worrisome behavior to a stop.

Chessrock, we can move on with open hands or closed. We can put it all behind us and stop the foolishness, or we can take it further. The choice, and the next move, is yours.

G.

 

[chessrock]

Southside,

The whole point of a forum like this is that ... when a guy named Chessrock gives some of the razzberries to a guy named "Southside Glen" ... it's all in fun and games.

When you try and escalate this stuff to a personal level, it becomes something else.

I don't know you from Adam, so how on earth could you take any jibes that an internet persona on a message board makes at you ... as a personal attack? It's chessrock, for cryin' out loud. The avatar is some sort of blue piece of fruit, and there's a pic of Ed in the sig line. How can you take a blue piece of fruit as a serious threat to your character?

.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Southside,

The whole point of a forum like this is that ... when a guy named Chessrock gives some of the razzberries to a guy named "Southside Glen" ... it's all in fun and games.

When you try and escalate this stuff to a personal level, it becomes something else.

I don't know you from Adam, so how on earth could you take any jibes that an internet persona on a message board makes at you ... as a personal attack? It's chessrock, for cryin' out loud. The avatar is some sort of blue piece of fruit, and there's a pic of Ed in the sig line. How can you take a blue piece of fruit as a serious threat to your character?

.

Is that your answer? Do you really think the personal attacks you make don't sound like the personal attacks that they are, especially after several hundred of them? Do you really think that you don't give far more of those to me than you do to anyone else (even after factoring in number of posts)?

Do you really think that having someone who hides their identity and lives a short drive away from me, stalking me on this board and attacking every chance he gets is even comparable in measure to any small annoyance I may give you just because my answers tend to be pedantic?

Do you really think that the perception is that I shouldn't be as concerned about you as you have become about me in the past 24 hours? Does that concern feel good or bad?

And do you really think that someone who has put himself out there in public without any hiding is really any real threat to you unless you continue to provoke him into being one?

The chocie is yours, chess. We can stop or we can continue down the path you have laid. I'd much prefer that you see the light and choose another path, but I'm ready to go either way.

G.

 

[chessrock]

Do you really want to settle this, once and for all?

Alright, if you want me to leave you alone and back off ... I have a few questions for you ...

1) What are you doing on these boards, and what is your purpose?

2) Why do you publically list your name, professional title, and the name of some sort of media company within your sig? What do you hope to accomplish by this?

3) Why do you have to answer ... every freakin' question on this board in excruciating detail? What are you hoping to accomplish with this, long-term?

4) Why do you offer links to these downloads ... this "compression uncompressed" stuff? What do you hope for that to lead to, long-term?

5) Why do you refuse to post any recordings of yours, whatsoever? How do you feel about your body of work ... how do you personally rate your body of work, and how is it received by others?


The reason I ask these questions is because no matter what ... my BS detector just won't shut up whenever you get on to your pontifications. It just goes crazy, and if I can get a firm grasp on where you're coming from ... and I mean where you're REALLY coming from ... maybe it will shut up for once. And if that happens, I'm sure I'll shut up along with it.
.

 

[TexRoadkill]

You're welcome to come on down for some good ol' south side pontification. You'll be paraphrasing in your pants long before I have you quoting verbatim all over the floor. And you'd be saving me the bother of making another trip up to Milwaukee Ave for any possible strike three.

G.

Isn't that a line from Good Will Hunting?

Southside, if that even is your real first name, how come you never post any audio clips?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Do you really want to settle this, once and for all?

Of course I do.

If I didn't, do you think I'd want to push it to the point I did? Do you think that your actions come without ramifications? Did you think that I'd just sit back and take your shit for as long as I have and not do someting to finally get it through your thick skull that it's not appreciated? Because apparently for the past two years you haven't been able to take a single f**king hint. Do you think that I enjoy having to deal with you like a parent has to deal with a recalcitrant dropout of a kid?

I've already answered most of these questions several times over on this board, and you've ignored the answers every time. You want the answers? I'll give you the same answer you give everybody else in such a situation. Use the search function, idiot.

But since you're incapable of that, and in the interest of putting this bullshit to bed, here are the answers to your questions, plus a few questions for you. tHE CAPS ARE NOT HOLLERING; THEY'RE JUST TO DISTINGUISH NY QUESTIONS FROM MY ANSWERS.

But these questions and answers change nothing. It's still your choice as to whether we continue down the path you started. It's still your move. This is the last delay you get.

1) What are you doing on these boards, and what is your purpose?
Many reasons. To share knowledge and for the enjoyment of discussing a topic that we commonly enjoy. The knowledge is bi-directional, BTW. I have learned as much by being here as I have taught.

A)SAME QUESTION BACK AT YOU.

2) Why do you publically list your name, professional title, and the name of some sort of media company within your sig? What do you hope to accomplish by this?
I don't look to accomplish much of anything by it. It identifies who is giving the answer and helps the reader judge who is giving the answer. And if it happens to send some business my way, that's gravy on the potatoes (though, frankly, that doesn't happen often.).

B) WHY DOES THAT BOTHER YOU SO MUCH?

C) WHY DO A DOZEN OTHER REGULARS HERE DO THE SAME THING, OFTEN INCLUDING LOGOS AND LINKS TO SITES THAT ARE A LOT MORE ADVERTISING THAN THEY ARE INFORMATIONAL, YET YOU DON'T SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM DOING IT? WHY DON'T YOU RAG ON TOM OR JOHN OR ANY OF THE REST FOR DOING SO?

D) WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO TAKE ON A SUPPOSEDLY FAKE PERSONA SO YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH COMING ON HERE AND ACTING LIKE THE OFFICIAL FORUM ASSHOLE? IF YOU REALLY ARE SO IMMATURE THAT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR YA YAS OUT BY PLAYING SOMEONE ELSE, THERE'S ON-LINE ROLL-PLAYING GAMES FOR THAT. OR THE DRAGON'S CAVE. THIS IS AN INFORMATION FORUM, NOT A ROLE-PLAYING GAME.

3) Why do you have to answer ... every freakin' question on this board in excruciating detail? What are you hoping to accomplish with this, long-term?
I don't come anywhere near close to answering every single freakin question. I only (until recently) frequent two of the many forums on this BBS, Recording Techniques and Mixing and Mastering. I recently added the Computer forum, but I'll probably be dropping that soon as I find the typical topics there to be quite uninteresting. And of those two boards, I answer to maybe one out of three posts, on average. I'd also point out that there are plenty others here who seem to want to chime in on almost every thread in some forums. Yet they don't seem to bother anybody, including you...well, I take that back; EVERYBODY bothers you.

BTW, take a look at the stats before you throw stones. Your average number posts per day are only a small hair below mine.

As to the detail in which I answer questions, yeah I can be pedantic at times. That is a fault of mine That I sould work on, I'll admit. But I also have found that if one actually *explains* their answer, that it will send a better and deeper understanding out to the reader and often avoid many predictable follow up questions asking about the details that would otherwise be left out, or with alternate answers that may miss the mark because they forget or ignore such details.

E) WHY DO YOU MAKE AS MANY POSTS TO AS MANY THREADS ON A DAILY AVERAGE AS I DO? WHY IS THAT BAD FOR ME TO DO BUT OK FOR YOU TO DO?

F) WHY ARE YOU BOTHERED BY DETAILED ANSWERS? WHAT' SO DAMN WRONG ABOUT THAT? WHy ARE SO SENSITIVE ABOUT SUCH MINOR MATTERS?

4) Why do you offer links to these downloads ... this "compression uncompressed" stuff? What do you hope for that to lead to, long-term?
Since I wrote that piece on compression, two major things have happened. First, the number of questions on these forms asking stuff like "what ratio should I use for vocals?" and so on has gone way down. They'll never go away, of course, but they have gone down. That's why I originally wrote it, as a single source answer to many of the beginner questions that get repeated time after time on this board.

Then the second thing happened. The response I got to to that offering - as well as the subsequent frequency chart - was quite overwhelming and entirely positive. The requests for links, e-mails, PMs and, yes, even long distance phone calls that I got in response to them, along with requests for for mor such material. There is a demand and an appreciation for such stuff, and I enjoy doing it when I can. I like writing, I like teaching, and I'm good at both OK? It's a win win situation for everyone. Except apparently, you. Which leads to the next two questions:

G) ONCE AGAIN, WHY DOES MY OFFERING FREE INFORMATION TO BOTH HELP QUESTIONERS AS WELL AS TO HELP RELEIVE THOSE WHO ANSWER MORE THAN THEY ASK OF THE TEDIOUSNESS OF THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BOTHER YOU SO MUCH?

H) WHY IS IT (ONCE AGAIN) OK FOR PEOPLE LIKE JAY AND TOM AND BRUCE AND JOHN TO INCLUDE SIMILAR TYPES OF INFORMATION ON THEIR WEBSITE AND TO OFFER UP LINKS TO SUCH PAGES ON THEIR SITES AS ANSWERS TO FORUM QUESTIONS OR IN THEIR SIGS, BUT WHEN I DO IT IT'S SUDDENLY A CRIME?

OK, I ran out of time for tonight, I gotta get ready for that gig tonight that you decided not to buy me a beer at . I'll pick up on this over the weekend. I'm not sure about tomorrow, as I'm heading down to the lake for Venetian Night. If you're going to be there, maybe I'll see you. You know what I look like already (except my sideburns are longer now); if you go down there and see me, come over and say hi. Don;t worry, it'll be a public place, none of your paranoid fantasies about any kind of south side monkey business will happen. Besides, I'll be in fornt of my elderly mother, I wouldn't want to upset her too much .

The choice remains yours, BTW. Nothing has changed.

G.

 

[RAMI]

I pontificated first thing in the morning. I'm planning on pontificating again later. I've pontificated in the shower so often, I'm surprised a baby hasn't crawled out of the drain yet.