PCI vs. USB SoundCard (SoftInstruments, Latency)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vadim
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Vadim

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I will be buying a new sound card, (most likely M-Audio...).
I mostly do MIDI, Softsynths etc...

I wanna buy USB type, but I'm afraid if it will compromise Latency/Buffering, SoftSynths/Soft Instrumrnts performace, like audio pops clicks.

Do USB AudioCards require higher latency settings, than PCI??

Currently I use E-mu 1212m, for 1 soft synth i can have latency on it for 4 ms, but I usually use between 7-20ms..., but isn't the sound driver that matters ? or does the driver matters from sound card?
 
I used a USB card for several years. When all the comments about usb cards being unsuitable for recording, etc. would start, I would defend usb because it was working for me. AND THEN....., one day I wanted more simultaneous inputs, so I got an Echo 24/96. The difference was astonishing. I can run more tracks with less cpu usage with the pci Layla. I would opt for pci. It seems much more efficient.
 
Audio interface latency is dependent on the quality and performance of the drivers written for it, as well as the interface type (firewire, USB 1.1, USB 2.0).
For best results, pick a firewire audio interface over a USB 1.1 unit. You are getting acceptable results with your current PCI card, Firewire bus is slightly slower than PCI.
 
For what you're doing, I would go PCI or Firewire. My Tascam US122 sounds great, but the latency isn't near as good as my PCI interfaces.
 
Advantages/disadvantages of PCI:

  • Slightly lower latency.
  • Not usable with laptops.
  • Not usable with any current Macs.
  • PCI slots being gradually phased out in favor of PCI Express (not compatible). Within a few years, motherboards with legacy PCI slots will be more expensive, specialized boards as ISA-capable boards became several years ago.
  • Devices with converters on the card itself are often prone to noise in some computers.

Advantages/disadvantages of PCI Express

  • Latency comparable to PCI.
  • Tons more bandwidth for devices with ludicrous numbers of channels.
  • Not being phased out.
  • Generally significantly more expensive than PCI or FireWire due to economies of scale.
  • Still not easily connected to a laptop.

Advantages/disadvantages of FireWire:

  • Easily connected to almost any computer, including laptops.
  • Robust against obsolescence by virtue of having bridges to most modern bus architectures.
  • Slightly higher latency (minimum is on the order of 6 ms RTL) than PCI (minimum is on the order of 3 ms RTL). Note that an audible delay is about 30 ms RTL. :D
  • Slightly higher CPU use than PCI (though not much).
  • Converters are guaranteed to be outboard for better SNR.
  • For maximum noise isolation, converters can be up to a kilometer away from the computer if desired (with appropriate optical FireWire transceivers and a long piece of fiber).
  • Cheaper to implement than PCI Express, I believe.
  • Only a handful of silicon vendors, so the drivers are usually pretty solid since they only have to maintain compatibility with a few different pieces of silicon.
  • The potential exists for routing individual streams of audio directly from one FireWire device to another without the computer even being involved. (I've seen demos of this with certain pieces of hardware, though I forget the vendor.) This makes it really interesting for use as a glorified routing switcher.

Advantages/disadvantages of USB:

  • Cheap.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
  • More prone to dropouts because all of the data copying is done without the benefit of true DMA (unlike FireWire or PCI) by the already-taxed CPU. It only has to get behind a little bit to totally hose things.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
  • Limited number of channels. It isn't a very good idea to go above two, and eight is right at the limit of usable.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI. :D
  • Slightly higher latency than FireWire even if all other things like buffer size are equal.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
  • Buffer size might need to be higher on slower CPUs due to lack of DMA.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
  • Lots of cases where the isoch pipe can go away.
  • Significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
  • Lots and lots of buggy USB devices that don't properly conform to the USB Audio Class spec and thus often don't quite work consistently.
  • Did I mention that it has significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI?
  • Limited power availability means no possibility of a bus-powered interface with usable phantom power.
  • Oh, yes, and significantly higher CPU load than FireWire or PCI.
 
engine joe said:
uhhhh hmmmm! *cough* *cou...bullshit!..gh!*
Click to expand...

That's a pretty common figure for the threshold of perception as applied to audio delays with respect to other audio signals. You can perceive the delay in other ways, of course (like phasing), but you won't hear it as a difference in the arrival time of the note.
 
Not usable with any current Macs
Click to expand...

unless i'm very mistaken i'm pretty sure my 1010 is completely mac compatible


Edit: turns out i was mistaken... not compatible with intel macs.. damn!
 
eeb said:
unless i'm very mistaken i'm pretty sure my 1010 is completely mac compatible


Edit: turns out i was mistaken... not compatible with intel macs.. damn!
Click to expand...

Its also reasonable to point out that the ONLY mac that actually supports PIC-E expansion is the macpro and as far as I know there is only one PCI-E audio interface (Motu 424 with HD192 or 24IO) on the market right now. With PCI-E 2 just around the corner with new form factor connections and insane speeds (5ghz per lane in one direction), PCI-E audio interfaces go the way of PCI-X
 
oh yes only the mac pro's the imac's are just like laptops.. i wouldnt want anything but a desktop mac anyway.. i never knew that my 1010 wasn't compatable with the new intel macs.. kinda a bummer because i was going to upgrade. oh well i'll stick to my pc for now
 
Are you getting a new sound card because you need more channels?

Because I beleive the 1212M has an ADAT connection. In that case you could get something like Behringer ADA8000 ( http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--BEHADA8000 ) which will connect to your 1212's ADAT input and give you 8 more input channels.

If you are wanting to change from the 1212M because of latency, i would imagine neither USB or Firewire is going to get you there...
 
eeb said:
unless i'm very mistaken i'm pretty sure my 1010 is completely mac compatible


Edit: turns out i was mistaken... not compatible with intel macs.. damn!
Click to expand...

Apple dropped parallel PCI support in the last generation of PowerMac G5. That's why I finally dumped my 1010LT... and now that I'm on all MOTU gear, I'm really glad I did. Until then, it was a pretty painful transition, though. :D
 
i'm super happy with my 1010 still.. not all that worried.. I'm sure i'll get tons of use out of my system (although i do need a "better" not nesisarrily new computer) but i mean once you get a system you're happy with there's no point on upgrading all the time.. hehe maybe when they phase out the 1010 i get a couple more for really cheap :D
 
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