Double tracking same effect as stereo?

[MessianicDreams]

I realise .....


[snip]

... hijacking the thread somewhat!

Ok well I still think you've misunderstood the Haas effect. Either that or I've seriously misunderstood it.

The Haas effect is concerning how we interpret time and phase differences and use these to extract localisation information. That is the Haas effect - how undistinguishable (where you don't here 2 discret sounds) time differences move the stereo imaging. Therefor the Haas effect HAS to be with multiple sources. There is no such thing as the Haas effect in mono - ever - at all.

I think you're getting side-tracked by the whole bit about when the 2 sounds become distinguishable; that's neither here nor there as - which you quite rightly pointed out - it varies depending on the sound, the reproduction space and especially on the brain between the ears!


Either way, I've personally tried both the shifting and the double tracking method. Hands down double tracking works best. Yes shifting does work - but as I said it's going to screw with your stereo imaging. Go ahead and try it There's a shedload of reseach gone into this particularly in terms of matrixed sound reinforcement and delays in order for the imaging to appear appropriately on your soundstage.

 

[pezking]

Ok well I still think you've misunderstood the Haas effect. Either that or I've seriously misunderstood it.

The way I understand it is that the Haas effect is the actual masking of the delayed signal. Not actually how we localise sound; maybe I'm wrong.

It is certainly a factor in how we locate sound, and it helps us to understand the human auditory system. But as I said I believe that due to the Haas effect we can locate sound. If that makes sense? Or perhaps I'm still explaining what I mean poorly.

It doesn't have to be from one source. It is most widely investigated by experimenting with one source and its reflections and depending on how far apart the first reflection is; and from which direction it came, how we use that information to locate the source. Unless you count the reflection as a separate source?

In laboratory situations it is demonstrated using two sources as it's much easier to control the variables of a second source rather than reflections.

Haas' work was done in the late forties; before the advent of stereo recordings. Whilst his principles apply to stereophony (and are vital to the development and understanding of multi-channel audio) it isn't correct (IMO) to define his principles based on stereo systems.

Sorry if I'm pissing you off, or if you think I'm splitting hairs.

I do appreciate this though, and it is making me think about something useful; rather than who's gonna win Wimbledon!

Hands down double tracking works best.

I agree totally, and have done from the start! To OP: Make the effort to do the double tracking properly, unless you seriously can't be arsed. It's worth the extra effort.