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PHILANDDON
New member
I want a high quality stereo preamp with high quality digital out. Portability is a plus, but not essential. These two models appeal to me most. Which would you go with? Any others to recommend? Thanks.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Haven't messed with the Grace, but certainly can't complain about the MiniMe.
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PHILANDDON
New member
Any other all-in-on two channel preamp plus A/D converter to recommend?
mshilarious
Banned
PHILANDDON said:
Yeah, and are any rackmount? I dislike the small box stuff.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
You could go with two half rack units. Like a Neve Portico and Benchmark ADC-1, for example.
mshilarious
Banned
SonicAlbert said:
That's a pretty big price jump for the deuce. As for the Grace, I don't get it. They have the 201 chassis and PSU. I get why FMR et al use a wall wart, but for nearly $2K, I want an internal PSU.
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PHILANDDON
New member
What's a PSU? Is that an internal A/D converter?
mrbowes
New member
psu= power supply unit
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
The PSU thing probably has to do with the fact that the Grace can be run off a battery. Also, I believe the street price on the Lunatec is around $1,500, actually a pretty good deal in my opinion.
mshilarious
Banned
SonicAlbert said:
Yeah, I just want them to make a non-portable version. Is the battery-powered pre/converter really that big of a market?
I'll probably just try to score a used 201 and an external converter.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
mshilarious said:
The whole idea of it is that you can do high quality remote recording without needing a power source other than a battery.
If you don't need that feature, then I think a 201 with an external converter would be the better way to go. That's what I've done, and I prefer having the preamp and converter separate anyway.
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PHILANDDON
New member
Sonic Albert,
When I spoke to the guy at Grace an argument he had for the Lunatec over an analogue Grace unit with a Lucid A/D converter was that the Lunatec would be a cleaner signal path. I.E. No XLR cables running out of the Preamp. What do you make of the argument. In this day and age of digital recording shouldn't all high end preamps be built with internal A/D converters so that we have pristine signal paths?
When I spoke to the guy at Grace an argument he had for the Lunatec over an analogue Grace unit with a Lucid A/D converter was that the Lunatec would be a cleaner signal path. I.E. No XLR cables running out of the Preamp. What do you make of the argument. In this day and age of digital recording shouldn't all high end preamps be built with internal A/D converters so that we have pristine signal paths?
mshilarious
Banned
PHILANDDON said:
Interesting point. I would say yes, but that could cause management problems among pres. Every 2 channel pre would have SPDIF or AES, but what if you want four flavors of two channel pre? Not too many 4 AES/SPDIF input cards around, but plenty of ADAT cards. Maybe an AES "patchbay" or something--I think RME has something like that. Anyway, that adds another layer of gear, plus redundant converters if all the pres aren't used together, versus an analog patchbay which is a very cheap piece of gear.
I definitely think it should be an option on many pres. Converters don't take that much space or juice, so they should fit in most any box.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
The guys at Grace are great, I talked to them about a cabling issue when I first got my 201. Very helpful and they really know their gear.
However, while they are probably right on an esoteric technical level about the length of cabling and pristine signal path, on a practical level I don't think it matters *that much*.
Rack your 201 and directly above it rack the converter. Connect the output of the 201 to the converter with short high quality cables, just long enough to reach from the 201 to the inputs on the converter. That will probably be 6-8 inches of cabling. This is a very short signal path and should not cause any noticable loss of audio quality. It will be clean.
I'm not a fan of the idea that every preamp should come with a converter built in. In the first place, if both pre and converter are of truly high end quality, the cost will be incredible. Those portable units like the Lunatec and Mini-Me will be the low end of the price range for anything of quality. I would much rather buy the preamps and converters I want separately, on their own merits. That allows me to tailor the sound better.
You also get into a whole area when you have a one channel preamp. Some of those have converters, but only one side of the SPDIF signal is used when going to the audio interface. So what do you do if you want two channels of that converter? You'd be using up two SPDIF or AES interface inputs, or you'd need a third party converter anyway.
Finally, I used the Lucid as an example of a good low cost converter. If you are really going after a converter of equal quality to the 201, I'd suggest you think about the UA 2192. I recently bought one and I must say it sounds great.
However, while they are probably right on an esoteric technical level about the length of cabling and pristine signal path, on a practical level I don't think it matters *that much*.
Rack your 201 and directly above it rack the converter. Connect the output of the 201 to the converter with short high quality cables, just long enough to reach from the 201 to the inputs on the converter. That will probably be 6-8 inches of cabling. This is a very short signal path and should not cause any noticable loss of audio quality. It will be clean.
I'm not a fan of the idea that every preamp should come with a converter built in. In the first place, if both pre and converter are of truly high end quality, the cost will be incredible. Those portable units like the Lunatec and Mini-Me will be the low end of the price range for anything of quality. I would much rather buy the preamps and converters I want separately, on their own merits. That allows me to tailor the sound better.
You also get into a whole area when you have a one channel preamp. Some of those have converters, but only one side of the SPDIF signal is used when going to the audio interface. So what do you do if you want two channels of that converter? You'd be using up two SPDIF or AES interface inputs, or you'd need a third party converter anyway.
Finally, I used the Lucid as an example of a good low cost converter. If you are really going after a converter of equal quality to the 201, I'd suggest you think about the UA 2192. I recently bought one and I must say it sounds great.
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PHILANDDON
New member
Thanks for all the replies.
Albert, I own two Grace 101's. I think they sound great. Sometimes I wish they had a little more gain. Maybe I should have purchased the high-gain version of the 101. Does the 201 have 70db of gain?
Albert, I own two Grace 101's. I think they sound great. Sometimes I wish they had a little more gain. Maybe I should have purchased the high-gain version of the 101. Does the 201 have 70db of gain?
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
The 201 has 64db of gain. Perhaps you can get your 101's modded by the guys at Grace to the 70db version.
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garf
New member
PHILANDDON said:
I had my Grace 101's modified for th 70db of gain by Grace, very inexpensive ($50 each)
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PHILANDDON
New member
That's very good news. I'm gonna call Grace and ask. Am I crazy to want more than 60db of gain? I feel I need it; even when recording with condensers. And it would definitely be handy for if and when I get a ribbon.
mshilarious
Banned
PHILANDDON said:
Yeah, you need more than 60dB for a ribbon. But if you need that much for a condenser
I dunno how you're going to be able to use ribbons. What are you recording?
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PHILANDDON
New member
Folk guitar and voice. I usually track when the wife and kid are asleep so I sing and play gently. If I had the place to myself I'd perform a little bigger, but I'm going for that relaxed vibe anyway.... Incidentally, the sound coming through the headphones sounds fine but my levels on my Roland are -12 at best and I'd prefer to be solidly between -12 and -4.
