Michael Jones
New member
And more importantly, who here plays piano, and is classically trained? I'm just curious. I also have some questions for fellow piano players.
Who here plays piano?
- Thread starter Michael Jones
- Start date
musicsdarkangel
New member
me
I'm obsessed with piano, it was love at first site when i got my mini keyboard at age 6. Have been playin for 8 years, am a Sophmore, and still love it. Right now workin on Rachmaninoff's C sharp prelude, finished Schubert's e flat impromptu (sorta easy), and C major chopin etude.
ASK ME!!
sorry i'm obsessed heh.
I'm obsessed with piano, it was love at first site when i got my mini keyboard at age 6. Have been playin for 8 years, am a Sophmore, and still love it. Right now workin on Rachmaninoff's C sharp prelude, finished Schubert's e flat impromptu (sorta easy), and C major chopin etude.
ASK ME!!
sorry i'm obsessed heh.
Michael Jones
New member
Thats cool!
Just curious.
I've been playing since I was sophmore in H.S., I'm now 41. With a long hiatius in there too though.
I'm working on Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini; 18th Var.
Beautiful Piece!
I used to play a lot of Chopin too.
Do you write? Compose? Arrange?
Just curious.
I've been playing since I was sophmore in H.S., I'm now 41. With a long hiatius in there too though.
I'm working on Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini; 18th Var.
Beautiful Piece!
I used to play a lot of Chopin too.
Do you write? Compose? Arrange?
musicsdarkangel
New member
yea
all 3 i do some of. I'm getting sibelius so I can compose and hear it. I'm sick of writin stuff heh. I also make techno, and i think that i'm going to put it into orchestral arrangement and maybe play it with the orchestra.
I'm huge into songwriting/arranging.
Rachmaninoff's my favorite composer,
Good choice
all 3 i do some of. I'm getting sibelius so I can compose and hear it. I'm sick of writin stuff heh. I also make techno, and i think that i'm going to put it into orchestral arrangement and maybe play it with the orchestra.
I'm huge into songwriting/arranging.
Rachmaninoff's my favorite composer,
Good choice
musicsdarkangel
New member
btw
try listz's second rhapsody. Its ingenius.
try listz's second rhapsody. Its ingenius.
Michael Jones
New member
Do you find yourself writing in one key more often than others.
I seem to be going thru this Eb Maj and its parallel minor, and F minor with Ab major sort of deal right now. I don't know why, I just seem to be writting in those mainly right now.
I seem to be going thru this Eb Maj and its parallel minor, and F minor with Ab major sort of deal right now. I don't know why, I just seem to be writting in those mainly right now.
musicsdarkangel
New member
ahh
yes of course, on guitar, and piano. I'm always writing in A minor, but i think i've gotten past that (or hopefully). There's nothin wrong with that, it's all what you like =) .
yes of course, on guitar, and piano. I'm always writing in A minor, but i think i've gotten past that (or hopefully). There's nothin wrong with that, it's all what you like =) .
Not likely I have your answers, then. I decided a couple months back to teach myself to play classical piano and to read music. I know it will be a long road, but that's why I'm also dabling in home studio recording (so I don't totally burn-out on the piano side.)
So far, my primary eduational materials have been "piano study" type, such as: Belwin Complete Adult Keyboard Course (book), Voyetra Teach Me Piano (software), a few internet sites with "beginner piano lessons", and I've also picked up some sheet music that I find interesting. I also got a metronome. For my birthday I asked my wife for a music theory book so I can broaden my musical foundation.
For someone who probably won't get any professional instruction for a couple years, can you properly trained folks recommend anything? Should I at least get a few real lessons so I don't start out with some really nasty habits?
Thanks for any tips!
-Shaz
So far, my primary eduational materials have been "piano study" type, such as: Belwin Complete Adult Keyboard Course (book), Voyetra Teach Me Piano (software), a few internet sites with "beginner piano lessons", and I've also picked up some sheet music that I find interesting. I also got a metronome. For my birthday I asked my wife for a music theory book so I can broaden my musical foundation.
For someone who probably won't get any professional instruction for a couple years, can you properly trained folks recommend anything? Should I at least get a few real lessons so I don't start out with some really nasty habits?
Thanks for any tips!
-Shaz
Michael Jones
New member
Shaz, you shuld definately get some professional help!
(that sounds bad)
Seriously though, teaching yourself is not impossible, but its SO much harder to do it that way. A good instructer can show you the technics that you simply can't get from a book. (hand positions, fingering, stuff like that) If you have a community college in your area, that's always a good place to take a course at. Many CC's offer begining piano classes, and you'll get a little bit of theory there too.
Also, decide early on what type of music you want to play. Many people will tell you that learning to play classical music will give you a good foundation. That's true, it gives you a good foundation in classical music. It absolutely won't give you a good foundation for playing jazz music! If you want to play jazz, then find a good instructor in jazz piano, not in classical piano. The 2 are different as night and day! Being classically trained, I find it somewaht frustrating to play jazz, simply because jazz breaks so many rules. Chords that don't fit the key signature, accidentals that pop in and out of the piece, chord structures that are almost NEVER used in classical pieces, but are the hallmark of jazz. Actually, if you're interested, I recorded an old jazz standard called "Tenderly". But I sort of classical-ized it. he he he.... Old dog, new trick kind of deal.
Here it is:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?131663
(that sounds bad)
Seriously though, teaching yourself is not impossible, but its SO much harder to do it that way. A good instructer can show you the technics that you simply can't get from a book. (hand positions, fingering, stuff like that) If you have a community college in your area, that's always a good place to take a course at. Many CC's offer begining piano classes, and you'll get a little bit of theory there too.
Also, decide early on what type of music you want to play. Many people will tell you that learning to play classical music will give you a good foundation. That's true, it gives you a good foundation in classical music. It absolutely won't give you a good foundation for playing jazz music! If you want to play jazz, then find a good instructor in jazz piano, not in classical piano. The 2 are different as night and day! Being classically trained, I find it somewaht frustrating to play jazz, simply because jazz breaks so many rules. Chords that don't fit the key signature, accidentals that pop in and out of the piece, chord structures that are almost NEVER used in classical pieces, but are the hallmark of jazz. Actually, if you're interested, I recorded an old jazz standard called "Tenderly". But I sort of classical-ized it. he he he.... Old dog, new trick kind of deal.
Here it is:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?131663
Thanks for the info Michael!
Although I enjoy listening to jazz, I think that playing-wise I'd get a lot more out of training myself for classical piano (and for some reason I think it'd be easier for me than to go into jazz.)
I have a 2 minute song posted at my website that I made very soon after getting my Motif. It's all minors (except the final note, heh) and the tempo jitters here and there because my hands were (still are) learning their dexternity. It will probably make a trained pianist cringe (if not most people) but you are welcome to listen / critique.
I think all the piano instructors in my area are booked right now; at least they were a couple months ago. I was thinking I might have better luck in June when lots of kids stop taking classes for the summer. I take your advice though. A couple hundred on some lessons might get me going a bit faster, and on the right foot, so to speak.
-Shaz
Although I enjoy listening to jazz, I think that playing-wise I'd get a lot more out of training myself for classical piano (and for some reason I think it'd be easier for me than to go into jazz.)
I have a 2 minute song posted at my website that I made very soon after getting my Motif. It's all minors (except the final note, heh) and the tempo jitters here and there because my hands were (still are) learning their dexternity. It will probably make a trained pianist cringe (if not most people) but you are welcome to listen / critique.
I think all the piano instructors in my area are booked right now; at least they were a couple months ago. I was thinking I might have better luck in June when lots of kids stop taking classes for the summer. I take your advice though. A couple hundred on some lessons might get me going a bit faster, and on the right foot, so to speak.
-Shaz
Michael Jones
New member
Hey Shaz, I listened to "Afternoon. Thats not bad at all!!
You'll find that you make progress very rapidly. But playing is something you have to do everyday. (Keeps you sharp)
I was wondering what you meant by "Your Motif". I understand its a synth, or keyboard. Gots any links for those?
You mentioned earlier something about a mteronome? You can play with one of those if you like, I guess its ok for starting out. I had a wonderful saxophone teacher one time who kind of discouraged me from using one. Inevitably, you are going to get ahead or behind, and that can be frustrating. You'll know when its time to quit using it though.
You'll find that you make progress very rapidly. But playing is something you have to do everyday. (Keeps you sharp)
I was wondering what you meant by "Your Motif". I understand its a synth, or keyboard. Gots any links for those?
You mentioned earlier something about a mteronome? You can play with one of those if you like, I guess its ok for starting out. I had a wonderful saxophone teacher one time who kind of discouraged me from using one. Inevitably, you are going to get ahead or behind, and that can be frustrating. You'll know when its time to quit using it though.
Oh boy! This is something I can speak to! I could make it a long story, but I'll try to keep it short (gotta leave some time for practice, as you say!)
As I mentioned, I just got into music as a hobby a few months back. I had always had a background interest in learning to play classical piano, but never took it further than that. Until, that is, a friend showed me around his "portable" keyboard. I decided to bite the bullet, and I got one the next day so I could: A - teach myself to play classical piano, and B - "compose original compositions" (as I wrote on a scrap of paper that day as a summary of my intention before shopping.)
Well, a couple days later I traded it in for a fully MIDI compliant keyboard with a floppy drive. Being a bit of a space-head though I just wasn't finding the flexability (read: endless spacey voices) I needed in these keyboards. I started considering "real" synths. Things that had real flexability. I looked at everything in the music store, but focused on items like Korg Karma, Yamaha Motif, and Roland Fantom.
In the end (to keep a long story short) after lots of playing around and internet research the Yamaha won me over. It'd be nice to have the full-sized hammer-action Motif 8, but with space (and money) as major constraints I got myself the Motif 6. The "Official" site for this baby is http://www.motifator.com
I recorded some of the "demo" material of the Motif and put those on my website as well. One of these days I'd like to get the 8 also, because the hammer-action would be far better for learning piano (and of course 88 keys are pertty important for classical piano too... 61 doesn't really cut it there.)
As with most Yamaha gear it's very high quality, very well priced, and a *$^^$%# to learn to use because of poor documentation and somewhat lacking U.I. but if you have patience or an EE degree you'll be fine
Ok, I think I'll stop babbling now.-Shaz
I'm also a piano player, classically trained. I love classical music. The last couple years I've been mostly into composing classical music. Before that I was into Chopin, Beethoven, and Mozart mostly. Before that I was really into Scott Joplin.
Besides composing, I've been trying to get better at jazz. Michael was right when he said that the difference between classical and jazz is night and day!
I'm glad you posted this topic. I definately have lots of comments, questions, etc., but gotta go for now.
bye,
Sydney
Besides composing, I've been trying to get better at jazz. Michael was right when he said that the difference between classical and jazz is night and day!
I'm glad you posted this topic. I definately have lots of comments, questions, etc., but gotta go for now.
bye,
Sydney
hey Michael...
I listened to that recording of Tenderly that you did (actually only the beginning because I'm having a problem with my media player). But anyway, it was very nice! It was a really good recording too. What kind of recording equipment did you use for that, and what kind of piano is that? I hope to do some piano recording eventually (as soon as I can get myself a piano!)
So are you mostly a classical pianist? It sounds like you're a jazz pianist too? I'm more of a classical pianist, but have been trying to learn to play more jazz. Any advice? I've been able to pick up the basic jazz chords and basic scales. But then I hear something like Thelonious Monk, and I have no idea how to even start figuring that out. I'm really curious about which scales and chords types is being used in that kind of jazz.
I listened to that recording of Tenderly that you did (actually only the beginning because I'm having a problem with my media player). But anyway, it was very nice! It was a really good recording too. What kind of recording equipment did you use for that, and what kind of piano is that? I hope to do some piano recording eventually (as soon as I can get myself a piano!)
So are you mostly a classical pianist? It sounds like you're a jazz pianist too? I'm more of a classical pianist, but have been trying to learn to play more jazz. Any advice? I've been able to pick up the basic jazz chords and basic scales. But then I hear something like Thelonious Monk, and I have no idea how to even start figuring that out. I'm really curious about which scales and chords types is being used in that kind of jazz.
Michael Jones
New member
Sydney, thanks for listening! To answer some of your questions, I'm going to start with a little back-ground first; a brief history lesson if you will.
When most people speak of "Classical" music, they tend to use it to catagorize any and all music prior to the 20th century.
But, just like jazz had a definate progression of styles over time, so too did "Classical" music.
It began with a period know as Medieval music. C.450-C.1450. Very sort of gothic, cathederal, plainsong, monks chanting type of stuff.
From there it eventually progressed towards what we now call Renaissance music. C.1430-C.1600. Characterised by composers such as Victoria, Byrd, Lassus to name a few.
We then see the progression move towards a period called Baroque. C.1600-C.1750 This was the music of Bach, Handel, Vivaldi
This takes us to the Classical music period. C.1760-C.1810, and was the music of Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn.
The Romantic period was the next sort of movement in "classical" music. C.1810-C.1910. Composers such as Chopin, Mahler, Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, and Wagner, dominated this era.
Which moves us to 20th Centry music. Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy, Bartok, Strauss were the better known composers of the earliest part of this period.
We can see that some of these styles of music were dominate for 100 years or more, unlike today, where musical styles seem to change every decade or so. This was probably due more to political influence that discouraged free and open expression than any lack of creativity of the composers of the time. Any influences in my music tend to come from the latter part of the Romance period; more Debussy, and Rachmaninoff than Mozart and Beethoven
We can see too that Jazz music went through its progression of styles; each of them lasting about a decade, sometimes more.
I wont go through all the periods of jazz music here, but if you noticed an influnce of jazz in my music, I'd say it can be attributed to the era knows as Cool Jazz. This style of music was prevalent amongst the likes of Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, Lou Donaldson, and Gerry Mulligan.
Sorry for the History lesson, but I thought it was important.
To record "Tenderly" I used 2 TLM103 mics that run to an ART PRO MPA tube mic pre-amp. From there it goes to a Nuendo AD/DA converter, and runs to the Nuendo recording software on my PC. It was recorded at 24 bit. The piano is a 7'-2" Boston semi-concert Grand. "Boston" is Steinway's version of a massed produced piano. (All Steinway's are hand made, one at a time, whereas the "Boston" , still made by Steinway is massed produced.)
Being more "classically trained" I find it somewhat frustrating to play jazz, the exception of course being the Cool Jazz period. I'd say if you want to learn to play more jazz, study the modes. Particularly the Lydian, Mixolydian, and Dorian modes. Any books, or better yet Tapes you can find by Jamie Ambersol would prove invaluable. Thelonious Monk, and his music are, I think best characterized by the period of jazz known as Hard Bop. Hard Bop was sort of a revolt against swing music. Swing music proved to be extremely sucessful commericially at the time, and Hard Bop sort of stepped in to move jazz in a new direction, much in the same way we saw Rock bands revolt against disco music. (just to give a contemporary comparison) I think the biggest direction of Hard Bop was use of the dominate 7th chord, and the technique of Tension and Resolution; a technique, I have yet to master!
Also, I'd look hard to find a teacher that specializes in jazz music, and take some lessons from him/her. Even if you only take lessons for a short period, the information you gain from someone like that will go a long way to help you in your playing. If you're playing someone elses music, don't think of the notes as a burden, think of them as a treasure the composer gave to us.
Other than that, just keep listening, keep playing, and have fun with it!
(sorry for the long post, but I could go on for hours!)
When most people speak of "Classical" music, they tend to use it to catagorize any and all music prior to the 20th century.
But, just like jazz had a definate progression of styles over time, so too did "Classical" music.
It began with a period know as Medieval music. C.450-C.1450. Very sort of gothic, cathederal, plainsong, monks chanting type of stuff.
From there it eventually progressed towards what we now call Renaissance music. C.1430-C.1600. Characterised by composers such as Victoria, Byrd, Lassus to name a few.
We then see the progression move towards a period called Baroque. C.1600-C.1750 This was the music of Bach, Handel, Vivaldi
This takes us to the Classical music period. C.1760-C.1810, and was the music of Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn.
The Romantic period was the next sort of movement in "classical" music. C.1810-C.1910. Composers such as Chopin, Mahler, Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, and Wagner, dominated this era.
Which moves us to 20th Centry music. Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy, Bartok, Strauss were the better known composers of the earliest part of this period.
We can see that some of these styles of music were dominate for 100 years or more, unlike today, where musical styles seem to change every decade or so. This was probably due more to political influence that discouraged free and open expression than any lack of creativity of the composers of the time. Any influences in my music tend to come from the latter part of the Romance period; more Debussy, and Rachmaninoff than Mozart and Beethoven
We can see too that Jazz music went through its progression of styles; each of them lasting about a decade, sometimes more.
I wont go through all the periods of jazz music here, but if you noticed an influnce of jazz in my music, I'd say it can be attributed to the era knows as Cool Jazz. This style of music was prevalent amongst the likes of Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, Lou Donaldson, and Gerry Mulligan.
Sorry for the History lesson, but I thought it was important.
To record "Tenderly" I used 2 TLM103 mics that run to an ART PRO MPA tube mic pre-amp. From there it goes to a Nuendo AD/DA converter, and runs to the Nuendo recording software on my PC. It was recorded at 24 bit. The piano is a 7'-2" Boston semi-concert Grand. "Boston" is Steinway's version of a massed produced piano. (All Steinway's are hand made, one at a time, whereas the "Boston" , still made by Steinway is massed produced.)
Being more "classically trained" I find it somewhat frustrating to play jazz, the exception of course being the Cool Jazz period. I'd say if you want to learn to play more jazz, study the modes. Particularly the Lydian, Mixolydian, and Dorian modes. Any books, or better yet Tapes you can find by Jamie Ambersol would prove invaluable. Thelonious Monk, and his music are, I think best characterized by the period of jazz known as Hard Bop. Hard Bop was sort of a revolt against swing music. Swing music proved to be extremely sucessful commericially at the time, and Hard Bop sort of stepped in to move jazz in a new direction, much in the same way we saw Rock bands revolt against disco music. (just to give a contemporary comparison) I think the biggest direction of Hard Bop was use of the dominate 7th chord, and the technique of Tension and Resolution; a technique, I have yet to master!
Also, I'd look hard to find a teacher that specializes in jazz music, and take some lessons from him/her. Even if you only take lessons for a short period, the information you gain from someone like that will go a long way to help you in your playing. If you're playing someone elses music, don't think of the notes as a burden, think of them as a treasure the composer gave to us.
Other than that, just keep listening, keep playing, and have fun with it!
(sorry for the long post, but I could go on for hours!)
Last edited:
that was good info
Hey Michael,
Thanks for the great info. I'm glad that you went into detail, because I learned a lot.
I'm going to start practicing those scales that you mentioned (Lydian, Mixolydian, and Dorian). Thanks man!
So have you been playing mostly classical or jazz lately? Have you been working on, or have you done any compositions?
One thing that I've been trying to learn a little more about, although I am mostly just a pianist, is how to compose a song for orchestra, and how all of those instruments relate to each other, work with each other, etc. Do you know about this? (Feel free to write as much as you like). It interests me because it seems like lots of composers use the piano to write for an orchestra.
Hey Michael,
Thanks for the great info. I'm glad that you went into detail, because I learned a lot.
I'm going to start practicing those scales that you mentioned (Lydian, Mixolydian, and Dorian). Thanks man!
So have you been playing mostly classical or jazz lately? Have you been working on, or have you done any compositions?
One thing that I've been trying to learn a little more about, although I am mostly just a pianist, is how to compose a song for orchestra, and how all of those instruments relate to each other, work with each other, etc. Do you know about this? (Feel free to write as much as you like). It interests me because it seems like lots of composers use the piano to write for an orchestra.
Michael-
I'm 47, and have been playing for 42 years although I'm hardly classically trained. I did take lessons when I was young, but since then I'm entirely self-taught. Frankly, I never had the patience or abililty to master the 'classical' repertoire though I admire and respect anyone who does.
The reason I'm posting in this thread is regarding your question about key signatures. For a very long time, I've been stuck in Eb, both major and minor. I find that working in these keys lets me go in a lot of different directions whether it be working modally, diatonically or chromatically. I found, once I got into them, that the keys fall really nicely for fingerings. I'm also a believer that different keys have, for want of a better term, "colors". Eb major just has a different sound from E major or D major. I can't explain it, but I believe it's there.
Ted
I'm 47, and have been playing for 42 years although I'm hardly classically trained. I did take lessons when I was young, but since then I'm entirely self-taught. Frankly, I never had the patience or abililty to master the 'classical' repertoire though I admire and respect anyone who does.
The reason I'm posting in this thread is regarding your question about key signatures. For a very long time, I've been stuck in Eb, both major and minor. I find that working in these keys lets me go in a lot of different directions whether it be working modally, diatonically or chromatically. I found, once I got into them, that the keys fall really nicely for fingerings. I'm also a believer that different keys have, for want of a better term, "colors". Eb major just has a different sound from E major or D major. I can't explain it, but I believe it's there.
Ted
