What do these lyrics mean to you?
- Thread starter Hoodoo
- Start date
Hey Eddie-
Thanks for keeping this thread alive, and all your enthusiasm. I guess before we jump into the "mass songwriting" thing, I'd like to see some groundrules established. Such as, how will this work exactly (does someone write just one line, one verse, throw out an idea and see what sticks), is this lyrics only or music as well, who will keep this thing "directed" so that it stays on course vs veering off into chaos, etc...
I'm not trying to damper the effort, I just want to ensure that anyone who wants to participate can, but that there are rules setup to govern how this will go down.
That said, my thoughts are this: stick with lyrics first. Writing music can be the next major undertaking. I'd like to have one single idea thrown out there, and work from that (versus having an opening line that may or may not provide any incentive to add to). Also, I'm not quite sure who gets "editorial" rights over the song, meaning if one line really sucks can one person dump it, or does it have to be a group vote.
From here, I think these ground rules should be setup and the songwriting can begin in earnest. I'm open to everyone else's feedback on this...
Thanks for keeping this thread alive, and all your enthusiasm. I guess before we jump into the "mass songwriting" thing, I'd like to see some groundrules established. Such as, how will this work exactly (does someone write just one line, one verse, throw out an idea and see what sticks), is this lyrics only or music as well, who will keep this thing "directed" so that it stays on course vs veering off into chaos, etc...
I'm not trying to damper the effort, I just want to ensure that anyone who wants to participate can, but that there are rules setup to govern how this will go down.
That said, my thoughts are this: stick with lyrics first. Writing music can be the next major undertaking. I'd like to have one single idea thrown out there, and work from that (versus having an opening line that may or may not provide any incentive to add to). Also, I'm not quite sure who gets "editorial" rights over the song, meaning if one line really sucks can one person dump it, or does it have to be a group vote.
From here, I think these ground rules should be setup and the songwriting can begin in earnest. I'm open to everyone else's feedback on this...
timmerman
-------------------------
Hello Hoodoo,
Sorry for the delay on this side, yesterday one of the main servers was down, so I had no access to this site. Yep you know how computers work eh?, being part of the softwarebusness.
Anyway, I am glad to hear from you again, so here we go:
Groundrules: Your questions: "Someone writes one line or verse or .....?"
Let us just respond to the ideas we have, you see I thought we first may want to brainstorm, mention some ideas before we start writing, however, we could also start with a phrase, a line or..... One of the difficulties is that we do this with a time-delay, so we can not be as spontaneous as we would like to be, also we need some discipline.
"Lyrics first or.....?"
Well let us say we aim for a story, then we can see how we want to dress it up with music. Being able to concentrate on one thing makes things a little easier.
"Who is directing....?"
Well what about all of us?, mind you, we need some discipline, but as I do not know you, and you do not know me, we just have to get going and communicate as clear as we can given all the limitations we have using eclectronic mail.
So with no one in "charge" all is open to start, what about the ideas I have put forward earlier ?. Do you like them ?, if not feel free to change them or make suggestions. Since Sunday [At the moment it is Wednesday afternoon] I have written some more complete lyrics, in fact I write all the time. Do not really feel to put anything here, rather like to make something together, this is not because I am shy but rather I would like to do some stuff together.
Right, see hope this is all a little clearer regarding some groundrules, so let us start now, shall we?
Eddie de Carpenter
Sorry for the delay on this side, yesterday one of the main servers was down, so I had no access to this site. Yep you know how computers work eh?, being part of the softwarebusness.
Anyway, I am glad to hear from you again, so here we go:
Groundrules: Your questions: "Someone writes one line or verse or .....?"
Let us just respond to the ideas we have, you see I thought we first may want to brainstorm, mention some ideas before we start writing, however, we could also start with a phrase, a line or..... One of the difficulties is that we do this with a time-delay, so we can not be as spontaneous as we would like to be, also we need some discipline.
"Lyrics first or.....?"
Well let us say we aim for a story, then we can see how we want to dress it up with music. Being able to concentrate on one thing makes things a little easier.
"Who is directing....?"
Well what about all of us?, mind you, we need some discipline, but as I do not know you, and you do not know me, we just have to get going and communicate as clear as we can given all the limitations we have using eclectronic mail.
So with no one in "charge" all is open to start, what about the ideas I have put forward earlier ?. Do you like them ?, if not feel free to change them or make suggestions. Since Sunday [At the moment it is Wednesday afternoon] I have written some more complete lyrics, in fact I write all the time. Do not really feel to put anything here, rather like to make something together, this is not because I am shy but rather I would like to do some stuff together.
Right, see hope this is all a little clearer regarding some groundrules, so let us start now, shall we?
Eddie de Carpenter
Hey Eddie-
Cool, I guess we can get rolling and see how things proceed.
One idea I had that came to me if one of those "creative epiphanies" (you know, the one that hits and you just gotta drop everything and write it down or strum it on the gtr as quickly as possible before you lose it...).
My idea is to write song about trying to write "the greatest song in the world." I think this fits perfectly with what many people here are striving for, and it can be tongue-in-cheek enough to somewhat describe what our very exercise is about.
Some rough lyrics that bounced into my head:
To me, the "story of the song" is told by the songwriter-- and it's about trying to write a song, but just... not... getting there. And he/she is trying so hard to impress the listener (a loved one, fans around the world, etc) but he/she is uncertain or lacks the confidence that the song is any good.
This idea gets me pretty excited, and I already have some melodies in my head, but I'll save those for later.
What do you think?
Cool, I guess we can get rolling and see how things proceed.
One idea I had that came to me if one of those "creative epiphanies" (you know, the one that hits and you just gotta drop everything and write it down or strum it on the gtr as quickly as possible before you lose it...).
My idea is to write song about trying to write "the greatest song in the world." I think this fits perfectly with what many people here are striving for, and it can be tongue-in-cheek enough to somewhat describe what our very exercise is about.
Some rough lyrics that bounced into my head:
I wanted to write the greatest song in the world
But I could not find the words
Then some friends of mine came along
and helped me to be heard
But I could not find the words
Then some friends of mine came along
and helped me to be heard
chorus:
Is this the greatest song in the world
Does it wanna make you dance and sing?
Or does it fail to touch your heart
After all, maybe I don't know anything
Is this the greatest song in the world
Does it wanna make you dance and sing?
Or does it fail to touch your heart
After all, maybe I don't know anything
To me, the "story of the song" is told by the songwriter-- and it's about trying to write a song, but just... not... getting there. And he/she is trying so hard to impress the listener (a loved one, fans around the world, etc) but he/she is uncertain or lacks the confidence that the song is any good.
This idea gets me pretty excited, and I already have some melodies in my head, but I'll save those for later.
What do you think?
timmerman
-------------------------
Hi Hoodoo,
I do not yet know how to use the quote-option, so how does this work,please explain.
Yes great stuff! Here are some things I would like to change and I'll tell you why
Instead of "I wanted to......" let us use: "I am sitting on top of the world and play this beat thing"
Reasons: The person is experiencing it, instead of just describing something.
I know my line is a little extreme, but hey, what do you think?
Rest of the first part can stay, as it is taking us through something, rather than mentioning something.
As for the chorus what about this one:
As this melody goes 'round and around
Does it want to make you stir or fry?
Or does it fail to touch you in the heart
After all we could do anything, but what do I know?
You see I tried to keep to your original meaning, but just tweaked it a little.
The idea is to describe rather than to mention. Do not feel I am too hard here, just see what you think of it, and change accordingly. So let us move on yo...........
Eddie de Carpenter
I do not yet know how to use the quote-option, so how does this work,please explain.
Yes great stuff! Here are some things I would like to change and I'll tell you why
Instead of "I wanted to......" let us use: "I am sitting on top of the world and play this beat thing"
Reasons: The person is experiencing it, instead of just describing something.
I know my line is a little extreme, but hey, what do you think?
Rest of the first part can stay, as it is taking us through something, rather than mentioning something.
As for the chorus what about this one:
As this melody goes 'round and around
Does it want to make you stir or fry?
Or does it fail to touch you in the heart
After all we could do anything, but what do I know?
You see I tried to keep to your original meaning, but just tweaked it a little.
The idea is to describe rather than to mention. Do not feel I am too hard here, just see what you think of it, and change accordingly. So let us move on yo...........
Eddie de Carpenter
timmerman said:Hi Hoodoo,
I do not yet know how to use the quote-option, so how does this work,please explain.
Just hit the QUOTE button at the bottom write and type your response below the last text.
Reason is good, but the "sitting on top of the world" distracts from the "trying to write the greatest song in the world"timmerman said:
My feeling is that the chorus has to have "greatest song in the world" in it and have that questioning element to it. From the point of view of the singer/songwriter, he's asking aloud with uncertainty. He's really trying to impress, and he's trying really hard to truly write the greatest song in the world. But he keeps getting stuck by one thing or another, and ultimately his confidence flags his efforts.timmerman said:
Also, the "make you stir or fry" will sound like "make you stir fry" which is what we Yanks often call Chinese food. I"d try to avoid turning this song into one about cuisine...
Back at ya...
timmerman
-------------------------
Hello Hoodoo, I agree with your feedback, I have to stay on the subject here, the "fun elements" are a little out of place, they would change the course too drastically. So keeping all with what you started, here is another idea for a second verse:
I heard you will buy me some flowers
when this one will go number one
But do you really want to hear
another song knowing it will
drive us apart
So where can I start when all I want is.........
From here it would lead you back into the chorus. The idea behind the second verse is: It is fine to have ambitions, however they come with a price and the price here is lack of time for your family and loved ones. I know it -again- will put a different slant on the subject, but see what you think.
Any ideas how we could do music in this way,no don't want to run ahead, just wondering how will we get melodies across, chords I can imagine, but melodies, and feel? Anyway we are still a long way of that yet, so let us just continue.............
Eddie de Timmerman
I heard you will buy me some flowers
when this one will go number one
But do you really want to hear
another song knowing it will
drive us apart
So where can I start when all I want is.........
From here it would lead you back into the chorus. The idea behind the second verse is: It is fine to have ambitions, however they come with a price and the price here is lack of time for your family and loved ones. I know it -again- will put a different slant on the subject, but see what you think.
Any ideas how we could do music in this way,no don't want to run ahead, just wondering how will we get melodies across, chords I can imagine, but melodies, and feel? Anyway we are still a long way of that yet, so let us just continue.............
Eddie de Timmerman
timmerman
-------------------------
Hello Hoodoo, so time gets you down eh? Well me too! Need to go to the Supermarket to get myself a tin of time, they do them here 2 for the price of 1, it sure is a great invention and the guy who came along with that one is now doing fine, well all of that could be in some lyrics, well I know it is just some fun........Anyway here is verse nr.3 see how that goes with you:
It has been a while now since I have seen my friends
They left me as I was getting along
With a different crowd who also wanted to be
part of the star in me
Cannot say I love it that much here, just keep wondering if this is.....
leading you back into the chorus......
Have to say I all do this very quickly so you may well want to finetune and change some things here to make it all fit into the one you have in mind.
Peace for now, and do not worry to much about time, as it will sort itself out
See Ya.
Eddie
It has been a while now since I have seen my friends
They left me as I was getting along
With a different crowd who also wanted to be
part of the star in me
Cannot say I love it that much here, just keep wondering if this is.....
leading you back into the chorus......
Have to say I all do this very quickly so you may well want to finetune and change some things here to make it all fit into the one you have in mind.
Peace for now, and do not worry to much about time, as it will sort itself out
See Ya.
Eddie
nave
Cave Relic
>>>>>>>This is my first posting of lyrics here on the HR bbs. I dug up this song I wrote over 12 years ago, so I'm interested to read feedback on it in this day.By all means, post your most positive and critical feedback...
Hey hoodoo.....I haven't read the rest of the comments as to avoid distraction and red herrings that send me off on tangents that do not have anything to do with my original interpretation.
Also, I won't critique your song it terms of good and bad and my own personal likes and dislikes because that kind of critique, to me, is about as useful as talking about the weather. OTOH, I will try and objectively talk of what I think are the songs themes and the conflict within the song that creates the story for me.
So, what do these lyrics mean to me?????? hmmmm. I think it's probably more important what they mean to you but I'll tell you what I think they mean anyway.
I suspect, psychologically speaking, you at the time you wrote this song (or the person this song is about) might have sometimes gotten down on him/herself for over-thinking things and spending too much time self doubting and doubting others in a mentally constructed "inner-world" and that this often kept him/her from empowering oneself and directly taking action and connecting with others in the "real world"... which is ultimately what the person in the song really wants to do. The dichotomy that emerges is one that juxtaopposes taking action vs. sitting still. The rest of the song seems to illuminate the emotions that relate to this conflict. Right now you are probably thinking that I must be crazy to come to these conclusions but bare with me as I try to further explain.
Taking action in the world is often not easy, for anyone, for a variety of reasons and inner conflicts. I know sometimes for myself, it's because I would like to spend more time sitting still, weighing pros and cons, model building, thinking and aquiring more knowledge to make sure I have all the bases covered before I make a move. In this song the major obstacle to taking action seems also to be based on a fear of reaching out and trusting in others. This cynicism and a disability to trust in others and the self is without a doubt best expressed in lines like "Open the door, the stranger walks in, You catch his eye, that twinkle of sin" and "We are the writers of hate and of sin." There is a general sense here that people are bad or evil in nature and the writer includes himself in that category as well because of the use of the word "we." He also feels that making true intimate contact with strangers is not safe because it would leave him vunerable to the evils he perceives in others or perhaps because he feels that others will discover that he is evil. However, conversely, the lines "Do not be frightened when we take you in" and "I’ve come to take your pain away" show that the person has not lost all faith and hope in people. Deep down, he knows that people are capable of good.
This catatonic state creates a healthy sense of desperation, anger at the self, and worthlessness that can be used as a spring board kindle the fire that one needs to jump into action. These issues of desperation, anger and worth are perhaps best expressed in the chorus...."like a house of cards in a hurricane, you stand for nothing." Inaction and the wasted potential that comes with it is also expressed in lines like "you are the leader of feeders usung" and "better cut short than wasted away." Sort of a variation of Neil Young's "it's better to burn out, than to fade away." This same theme, fear of not taking action, is further expressed in "died on the vine today." And yet expressed again in "biding" my time without hour glass and sand." The need to overcome this catatonic, procrastinating, emotional paralysis is further expressed in "Don't wait for today to make war on tomorrow" and "you can not wait for them to arrange." There is a desperate sense that the person feels he/she is running out of time and must take action now before he gets old and it is too late: "He was not yet fifty as the boy pulled up a chair...A face of lines and pages, his age filling the air"
The person does not want to sit around anymore and wants to head out and conquer the world!!!!!!!.The most powerful lines in the song, as simple as they are, are the lines "I will rise again" and "I will rise up" that are repeated over and over again in mantra like fashion as if the writer of the song was trying to convince himself to set aside reservations so as to eventually find the strength to defeat this catatonic paralysis, take action, and go out and conquer the world. In the end of the song, the person triumphs and does achieve victory over the self and heals by both taking action & ultimately overcoming that aforementioned mistrust in others: "Together WE will conquer again and again."
Another very powerful line is "to prepare for your life you must die once today:" It is the old lathargic and catatonic self -- the one that does not stand up for the higher self's true beliefs, or "stands for nothing" -- that must die so that the new empowered action taking self that is developing and "rising up" can live on.
In summary, I see this song as somewhat of a "revolution of the mind"....of your own mind. Of course, appropriately, in the spirit of revolution, the song is riddled with fragmentation and does not exactly read linearly. The changing from first and third person and the appearence that there are more than one characters in the song is mostly superficial and doesn't really matter as you are in reality constantly expressing different parts of yourself when writing. That's a gestalt-esque psychological idea that maintains that all the characters within a dream (or a song for that matter) are different expressions of the dreamer/songwriter himself. I have attempted to reconstruct and re-arrange the song you can see the theme in linear fashion and hopefully you can make more sense of it of that way. Ultimately, there is a lot of conflict in the song, which is, as anyone knows, essential to any good story.
So, in hindsight, does any of this pertain to the issues you were dealing with in your life twelve years ago???? lol. I suspect it does. This seems like a very personal song and it must mean something to you if you still hold on to it a decade and change later. I wouldn't normally get so personal with my interpretation but I felt comfortable doing so since your song was written so long ago. I suspect that you wrote this song in a very "becoming" period in your life -- perhaps when you were beginning to mature, grow, take on responsibility, and become an adult....or maybe not and perhaps in response to a mid-life crisis and seeking somesort of rebirth or something?...and at the time when you wrote it you weren't exactly sure what it meant and it was all just unconsciously expressed and rose to the surface in the form of a song. I think I'm on the right track or at least in the ballpark but some, if not much, of my interpretation may be due to projections of my own issues so there is a certainly a margin of error..lol...Of course, you are welcome to think this is all nonsense if you wish....lol...
Hey hoodoo.....I haven't read the rest of the comments as to avoid distraction and red herrings that send me off on tangents that do not have anything to do with my original interpretation.
Also, I won't critique your song it terms of good and bad and my own personal likes and dislikes because that kind of critique, to me, is about as useful as talking about the weather. OTOH, I will try and objectively talk of what I think are the songs themes and the conflict within the song that creates the story for me.
So, what do these lyrics mean to me?????? hmmmm. I think it's probably more important what they mean to you but I'll tell you what I think they mean anyway.
I suspect, psychologically speaking, you at the time you wrote this song (or the person this song is about) might have sometimes gotten down on him/herself for over-thinking things and spending too much time self doubting and doubting others in a mentally constructed "inner-world" and that this often kept him/her from empowering oneself and directly taking action and connecting with others in the "real world"... which is ultimately what the person in the song really wants to do. The dichotomy that emerges is one that juxtaopposes taking action vs. sitting still. The rest of the song seems to illuminate the emotions that relate to this conflict. Right now you are probably thinking that I must be crazy to come to these conclusions but bare with me as I try to further explain.
Taking action in the world is often not easy, for anyone, for a variety of reasons and inner conflicts. I know sometimes for myself, it's because I would like to spend more time sitting still, weighing pros and cons, model building, thinking and aquiring more knowledge to make sure I have all the bases covered before I make a move. In this song the major obstacle to taking action seems also to be based on a fear of reaching out and trusting in others. This cynicism and a disability to trust in others and the self is without a doubt best expressed in lines like "Open the door, the stranger walks in, You catch his eye, that twinkle of sin" and "We are the writers of hate and of sin." There is a general sense here that people are bad or evil in nature and the writer includes himself in that category as well because of the use of the word "we." He also feels that making true intimate contact with strangers is not safe because it would leave him vunerable to the evils he perceives in others or perhaps because he feels that others will discover that he is evil. However, conversely, the lines "Do not be frightened when we take you in" and "I’ve come to take your pain away" show that the person has not lost all faith and hope in people. Deep down, he knows that people are capable of good.
This catatonic state creates a healthy sense of desperation, anger at the self, and worthlessness that can be used as a spring board kindle the fire that one needs to jump into action. These issues of desperation, anger and worth are perhaps best expressed in the chorus...."like a house of cards in a hurricane, you stand for nothing." Inaction and the wasted potential that comes with it is also expressed in lines like "you are the leader of feeders usung" and "better cut short than wasted away." Sort of a variation of Neil Young's "it's better to burn out, than to fade away." This same theme, fear of not taking action, is further expressed in "died on the vine today." And yet expressed again in "biding" my time without hour glass and sand." The need to overcome this catatonic, procrastinating, emotional paralysis is further expressed in "Don't wait for today to make war on tomorrow" and "you can not wait for them to arrange." There is a desperate sense that the person feels he/she is running out of time and must take action now before he gets old and it is too late: "He was not yet fifty as the boy pulled up a chair...A face of lines and pages, his age filling the air"
The person does not want to sit around anymore and wants to head out and conquer the world!!!!!!!.The most powerful lines in the song, as simple as they are, are the lines "I will rise again" and "I will rise up" that are repeated over and over again in mantra like fashion as if the writer of the song was trying to convince himself to set aside reservations so as to eventually find the strength to defeat this catatonic paralysis, take action, and go out and conquer the world. In the end of the song, the person triumphs and does achieve victory over the self and heals by both taking action & ultimately overcoming that aforementioned mistrust in others: "Together WE will conquer again and again."
Another very powerful line is "to prepare for your life you must die once today:" It is the old lathargic and catatonic self -- the one that does not stand up for the higher self's true beliefs, or "stands for nothing" -- that must die so that the new empowered action taking self that is developing and "rising up" can live on.
In summary, I see this song as somewhat of a "revolution of the mind"....of your own mind. Of course, appropriately, in the spirit of revolution, the song is riddled with fragmentation and does not exactly read linearly. The changing from first and third person and the appearence that there are more than one characters in the song is mostly superficial and doesn't really matter as you are in reality constantly expressing different parts of yourself when writing. That's a gestalt-esque psychological idea that maintains that all the characters within a dream (or a song for that matter) are different expressions of the dreamer/songwriter himself. I have attempted to reconstruct and re-arrange the song you can see the theme in linear fashion and hopefully you can make more sense of it of that way. Ultimately, there is a lot of conflict in the song, which is, as anyone knows, essential to any good story.
So, in hindsight, does any of this pertain to the issues you were dealing with in your life twelve years ago???? lol. I suspect it does. This seems like a very personal song and it must mean something to you if you still hold on to it a decade and change later. I wouldn't normally get so personal with my interpretation but I felt comfortable doing so since your song was written so long ago. I suspect that you wrote this song in a very "becoming" period in your life -- perhaps when you were beginning to mature, grow, take on responsibility, and become an adult....or maybe not and perhaps in response to a mid-life crisis and seeking somesort of rebirth or something?...and at the time when you wrote it you weren't exactly sure what it meant and it was all just unconsciously expressed and rose to the surface in the form of a song. I think I'm on the right track or at least in the ballpark but some, if not much, of my interpretation may be due to projections of my own issues so there is a certainly a margin of error..lol...Of course, you are welcome to think this is all nonsense if you wish....lol...
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