Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Sound Insulation

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    160
    Sign in to disable this ad
    Construction started today on new home/studio....builder informed me the inside basement walls would be 2X4 studs, with fibreglass pink insulation and vapour barrier. He is willing to replace insulation with rock wool, etc. so my question is: What should I have him put in, keeping in mind I will still do a multi-drywall/resiliant channel finish to these walls? Thanks for any info, much appreciated!

    BW
    Pinederosa Studio

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Montecito
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,432
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    214769
    Some questions - its a basement, so is it underground?
    If it is, wall insulation is perhaps not the primary concern, but ceiling is??

    My advise would be (regardless if its under - or above ground):
    1) Instead of the standard thin vapor barrier, ask your builder to fit something like AST30 barrier. Its thicker, heavier, and should NOT cost a whole lot extra.
    2) Definately go for the Rockwool option. Rockwool is a much higher density and has a far better STC rating than glasswool. Rockwool batt is normally quite thin, if they use standard batt your best bet is to use 2 layers to fill up the cavity.

    Both options above will cost you a little extra money, but not much at all, and you'll be forever glad you did. Your builder will most likely tell you: "you don't need......etc." Ignore that.

    I'd be interested to know if your construction will indeed be underground or not, and what your wall's outer skin will comprise off. Will also be able to give you some good advise on the inside finish if you wish

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    160
    sjoko2,

    Thanks for the reply...this is a basement installation, walls are 8" poured concrete, no windows, rural location (very quiet) mostly sand (including backfill)
    I agree, I am more concerned with the ceiling than the walls, have taken a lot of good advice from these boards, but would appreciate any suggestions you might have!
    Studio to consist of 14'X16' control room, 14'X21' tracking room and 9'X7' iso room, all with 9' ceilings (best I could do!) Floors and walls to be floated, probably room within room design....again, any suggestions, recommendations welcomed.

    Thanks.

    BW
    Pinederosa Studio

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,969
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    2487423
    Thanks for the reply...this is a basement installation, walls are 8" poured concrete, no windows, rural location (very quiet) mostly sand (including backfill)
    Rural is good, as sound leaking won't pester your neighbors. Also the basement being below ground will result in a fairly cool workspace in the summer, and a fairly warm place in the winter. Concrete doesn't leak heat differences anywhere near as much as wood/sheetrock/etc.

    I agree, I am more concerned with the ceiling than the walls, have taken a lot of good advice from these boards, but would appreciate any suggestions you might have!
    I would be concerned about the walls to, only because concrete tends to reflect sounds very well, thus the walls you build in front need to handle the soundproofing. You could build this functionality into the wall (using Auralex "soundblock" for example), or layer the wall in such a way that there is enough dampening material on the surface, as well as inside. Studio foam on the exposed surface of the wall goes a long way. I prefer to use a product like "soundblock" where possible because its thinner, almost like thick tyveck. The advantage of this over foam is the walls can be a little thinner, and of course, easier to clean. Its tough to vaccuum the ceiling and walls, which occasionally you have to do with foam, especially in a basement where air circulation might not be optimal.

    Studio to consist of 14'X16' control room, 14'X21' tracking room and 9'X7' iso room, all with 9' ceilings (best I could do!) Floors and walls to be floated, probably room within room design....again, any suggestions, recommendations welcomed.
    9' ceilings are not bad. The room in my new house slated for my control room has 7' ceilings for the front 2/3 of the room, and the back 1/3 the ceiling slopes down towards the floor, stopping at 38.25" off the floor. This slant is where I'll be putting my six 18U homemade racks. Room for gear without hitting my head

    Like you, I'm going to float the floor, using 1/2" thick soft rubber. Instead of purchasing a pre-made product, a friend of mine "acquired" a large rubber "plate" for lack of a better term. Its reasonably flexible for 1/2" rubber, but strong enough to survive the weight of the floor. The six 18U racks will be mounted on the "real" floor underneath, and the console room floor will mount flush, with 1/2" rubber in between the front surfaces. Makes construction easier. Any and all wires will be underneath this floating floor, in cable troughs. I'm almost done the design, and have to continue aquiring materials.

    Since the new floor adds almost 3.5" in height, my ceiling will appear to drop from 7' on the nose to 6' 8.5" in height. I'm 6' tall, so in theory I could survive with this, however since my studio space is the attic of a two car garage, I'm going to open up the attic, and cut out ceiling joists in pairs of two. Then, I'll take the cut joists and move them higher up on the roof rafters, and trim to fit and bolt them in with 3/4" bolts. This will allow me to sheetrock (and soundblock) around these opening and attach light fixtures "way up" so I don't hit my head. I'm going to try to frame out enough space above the console table to really make it seem a larger space, even if some of the space is upwards. Studio monitors tend to sound better with more air in the room, and there is nothing wrong with adding space upwards. Of course, this makes it more complex to sheetrock

    Just sharing what I'm doing hoping you might find an idea or two you like. I've done the basement studio thing before, and debated doing it again, however I like to compose with sunlight in abundance. Nothing wrong with a basement studio, but after a few years you might feel like a mole I know I did!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    160
    Thanks frederic,

    Probably will do a resiliant channel thing on the walls, definitely on the ceiling, so hopefully this will cure most sound leak problems. As to sunlight, I agree, but most of my studio work is at night, usually too busy with "chores" in the daylight, cutting grass at new place will be "huge" time commitment, might have to teach my wife to drive the lawn tractor!
    Anyway, best of luck with your own installation!

    BW
    Pinederosa Studio

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Montecito
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,432
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    214769
    A couple of very good factors there.
    1 - Poured concrete, rather than block, high density, no let through of high frequencies, only thing to watch is low frequency resonance. That is of cause just considering sound transmission.
    2 - Sand. Sand dampens brilliantly. Please please make sure you are there when they do the back fill. If possible, make sure there is a layer of just rough sand, without back-fill and building debris, against the wall I have encountered a huge problem with a place I designed in Europe years ago, with one of the studios walls located in a basement transmitting low frequencies like mad. We really did not understand this - as it came from one side of the building only. In the end all I could do was advise them to excavate that side of the building........... and found that the builders had used the fill as a dump. Old pallets, pieces of duct etc., all against the wall, making the wall into a pretty effective transmitter, like a drum head.

    Just to go against the grain frederic...
    Rural is good - if you're in the middle of woods with nobody anywhere near. Most semi-rural places have increased soundproofing requirements. No urban noises - and at night sound can carries for miles!

    Temperature - being underground, well insulated, have you considered your heat and AC requirements?

    9' ceiling height - is that clearing without calculating floors and ceilings?

    The walls. An 8" concrete wall (make very sure they put a good moist barrier in!), with a 2 x 4 timber frame inside. A number of things;
    1). Back to the moist barrier again. Don't take risks here. I'd fit an additional layer of AST30 (thick asphalt impregnated roofing felt) against the wall before anything else.
    2). Make sure the timber frame is not directly attached to the concrete wall, leave a small gap. Sampson galvanized steel ties are perfect to attach the frame to the wall, they do not transmit vibration.
    3). With a concrete - sand - timber frame with insulation construction and its usual characteristics, this is one example where I would not use a drywall - resilient channel - drywall interior wall construction, especially if you ensure the frame has no direct attachment to the concrete wall other than by means of steel ties. Instead I would recommend the following:

    One layer of Georgia Pacific Toughrock Sound-deadening Gypsum Board. This is thin, 1/4" ASTM C442.
    One layer of standard 1/2 sound board.
    One layer Georgia Pacific Toughrock Fireguard 5/8"
    You can find details about GP products at http://www.gp.com/gypsum/products/specialty.html#sound

    I have found the above sandwich construction to be highly effective and also very cost effective. You would find a sandwich wall like that to be more effective for your particular outside walls.

    The 1/8" soundblock Frederic mentioned is mineral loaded vinyl, sold by acoustic companies like Auralex for much to much money.
    Because of your concrete wall, sand and internal wall, you won't need it in the exterior walls.
    It is a very effective barrier material, with a claimed STC rating of 26 to 27. BUT - I have found this rating to have one major provision - it is only so if the material is floating. As soon as it becomes part of a ridged structure its effect is reduced, which really is normal. Use it for instance with a thin layer of high impact foam on either side, as an underlay, and its brilliant. Use it without foam as an underlay - you're better off with the foam only at 10% of the cost. Great stuff overall, if you need any ask me, as I can order direct from a manufacturer, which is at least 50% less than an acoustics company charges.

    Now I'm out of time, if you like I'll do another one on your ceiling and air, which are going to be your primary challenges.




  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    160
    sjoko2,

    Once again, thanks for all suggestions/direction, this is much appreciated!

    As for backfill, that is happening as we speak, I looked over the material and site yesterday, and all was clean...builder is aware of studio and has been quite interested in different techniques I am passing on, from both my own experience and others, such as yourself!

    Heat will be electric (for the studio only), rest of the house is forced air oil/wood. No AC in this house, site is tree covered (60-70 foot pines), lots of shade, breezy area (open fields all around) and last studio (basement) was "very" cool year-round, so I'm hedging my bets that I can get away without it...ductwork for upstairs will be located in the outside hallway area so, if needed, future AC could be fed here, doors could be left open from this area as it is still isolated from main house (still hoping none of this will be required!) I said pool or AC, wife said pool, end of discussion!!!
    Finished ceiling height will be 8'8"
    Any additional info re:ceiling materials/construction would be helpful, even to verify current info/previous experience. I will definitely look into a distributor of GP products or their equivalent in my area, and thanks again for this/future info!

    BW
    Pinederosa Studio

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,969
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    2487423
    Sand. Sand dampens brilliantly. Please please make sure you are there when they do the back fill. If possible, make sure there is a layer of just rough sand, without back-fill and
    One of the better sound booths I made (and did this by accident, without any forethought), was a slightly trapaziod vocal booth, constructed of ordinary 2x4's, with sheetrock both sides, carpet on the inside, and sand between the studs/sheetrock. I thought the carpet was the answer. No. The sand was. You are absolutely correct that sand is an awesome dampening material. The carpet, well, was fairly useless.

    Just to go against the grain frederic...
    No problem

    2). Make sure the timber frame is not directly attached to the concrete wall, leave a small gap. Sampson galvanized steel ties are perfect to attach the frame to the wall, they do not transmit vibration.
    I've used rubber strips successfully also. Its easier to glue a long strip that's 2" wide than to attach a bunch of tiny little metal thingys. I think so anyway, since I'm not terribly handy

    One layer of Georgia Pacific Toughrock Sound-deadening Gypsum Board. This is thin, 1/4" ASTM C442.
    Is this material as strong as 5/8" ordinary sheet rock? I would be concerned about surface damage from bass amps being wheeled in and out. If so, or if its close, I'll thank you for the tip now

    I have found the above sandwich construction to be highly effective and also very cost effective. You would find a sandwich wall like that to be more effective for your particular outside walls.
    I'd agree here as well. Its also easier to construct too, the individual layers aren't physically heavy and an individual can do it him/herself without assistance. Good for those late night construction efforts

    26 to 27. BUT - I have found this rating to have one major provision - it is only so if the material is floating. As soon as it becomes part of a ridged structure its effect is reduced, which really is normal. Use it for instance with a thin layer of high
    I've used it predominatly under flooring, since its effective, and thin. While I layer out my floors (and will do it again this time), I agree, the stuff is expensive.

    50% less than an acoustics company charges.
    I would be interested in this, if this is a bonified offer hopefully?

    Now I'm out of time, if you like I'll do another one on your ceiling and air, which are going to be your primary challenges.
    I've always had rectangular rooms in the past, and have a fair amount of experience on treating them appropriately. THis particular control room i'm building, while larger, has odd-ball indentations and slanted ceilings, and all sorts of major headaches that my and my Visio aren't grasping.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •