Zoom H4n Question..

IndustrialOkie

IndustrialOkie

Esoteric Order of R'lyeh
So I ordered a Zoom H4n online yesterday for capturing natural samples, but I was also hoping I could get some good live tracks of my band at upcoming shows. Naturally I will read the manual when it arrives, but there seems to be a lot of great experience here and was wondering if anyone had any tips/suggestions on getting optimal sound quality out of the device.

I tried Google but have a very restrictive work computer and most links won't open. Don't know if the band setup will matter but we are a six piece as follows:

Acoustic Guitar/ vocals
Banjitar/vocals
Accordian/Mandolin/vocals
Penny whistle/flute/vocals
Electric bass
Full kit drummer

Thanks in advance and hope to get many responses- I got five more hours to kill at work!:cool:
 
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I have several questions...


- You want to record an entire band with a handheld 4 track recorder?

- What sort of quality are you expecting to get?

- What sort of environment will your band be playing in?

- How will you set up the recorder?

- Why do you want to record an entire band with a handheld 4 track recorder?
-- What are you expecting to do with these tracks once they're recorded?

- Would you be better off returning the Zoom H4n and getting something like the Zoom 16r and some microphones for this?
 
Hi,

I have the older Zoom H4.

It works fine as a live recorder as long as you accept that it's going to sound like a bootleg. I often use it as a crowd or ambiance mic for multi-track recordings.

If you are hoping to capture the full sound of the band then placement is everything. You are going to be entirely at the mercy of the room acoustics and the bands live mix.

It works fine for evaluating performances and songs but it's not really going to yield recordings that you'd play for anyone else.

Good luck!
 
IndustrialOkie said:
So I ordered a Zoom H4n online yesterday for capturing natural samples, but I was also hoping I could get some good live tracks of my band at upcoming shows. Naturally I will read the manual when it arrives, but there seems to be a lot of great experience here and was wondering if anyone had any tips/suggestions on getting optimal sound quality out of the device.

I tried Google but have a very restrictive work computer and most links won't open. Don't know if the band setup will matter but we are a six piece as follows:

Acoustic Guitar/ vocals
Banjitar/vocals
Accordian/Mandolin/vocals
Penny whistle/flute/vocals
Electric bass
Full kit drummer

Thanks in advance and hope to get many responses- I got five more hours to kill at work!:cool:
Click to expand...

Hey Okie I have done many recordings of bands *live* using the H4n that the bands pay me for and are very pleased with the out come.
the recording will sound live but far from crappy.
You have many options to choose from when it comes to recording with the zoom but I prefer this set up.....Two microphones of your own set in x/y up on a microphone stand then take an aux (or you can go out stereo out) to the mini T/R/S input on the bottom of the zoom. With the aux out you have the ability to get a balanced recording by monitoring with head phones.



:cool:
 
OK thanks for the advice guys. I got the impression (possibly false?) that I could run a line out of the club's sound board into the xlr jack of the device, then use the two onboard mics for crowd ambience.
 
IndustrialOkie said:
OK thanks for the advice guys. I got the impression (possibly false?) that I could run a line out of the club's sound board into the xlr jack of the device, then use the two onboard mics for crowd ambience.
Click to expand...

Just my own experience, but a line out from a board is usually very unbalanced, as different instruments have different stage volumes. You end up with extremely loud vocals, kick, snare, and bass and everything else is so far in the background. You are better off putting a thing like that right near where the soundman is sitting if you can. That way it is hearing what he is hearing.
 
if you would of spent 100 more dollars you could of got the r16 which has two built in mics plus 8 mic/line inputs also. Great portable device, I highly recommend it.
 
Hey Okie...

I got a Zoom H4n this past January for recording my band. I got it expressly for the purpose of getting a recording of what the mix sounds like, so the guys can hear what they're paying me for.

Here's a few tips I've learned in the last 5 months, after using it for 10 shows.

-get a tripod to get the Zoom above the crowds head level, at least 18 to 24 inches. So you wannt get it about 7 feet off the ground. mount it on the tripod at about a 45 degree angle of incline

-use the 90 degree setting, not the 120 degree.

-record at least at 44/16.

-get the remote control, it's a little flimsy, but extremely useful

-run off AC power whenever possible.

-DO NOT talk to anyone withing 8 ft of the zoom. It picks up close stuff very well.

-have back-up batteries always
-have a back-up SD card always

-it WILL expose your mixing capabilities - good and bad. If you're recording sounds like shit, your mix probably does too.

Post production: use good sound editing software - i use SoundForge 8
: all that should be needed is slight compression and tiny bit of EQ - depending on where your FOH is set up.

Here's a recording(levels at 28) from a festival we played last week. inside a rectangular plastic tent - approx L300xW150xH100(at center poles).

FOH was 60 feet from stage, 10 ft off center right.
Approx 300 people.

Getting Better
 
I've had my best luck using outboard mics, usually a pair of AKG C2000B's. I would use external mics for an honest stereo recording in X-Y (coincedent) configuration. If I wanted to use the onboard mics, I'd use them for the room mics. I agree that the remote control is real handy, to eliminate handling noise. I'm not particularly impressed by the onboard mics, but with a good set of outboard mics, the thing rocks! And- if you record in 4 tracks, the only available bit depth and resolution is 16bit/44.1kHz. I've had better luck using a good set of outboard mics in 24bit/44.1kHz and just doing an honest stereo recording. When I do need the other 2 tracks, I use a SONY ECC-MS957, and leave the onboard mics out of the loop.-Richie
 
recording with H4N

The best way to record a band with a digital recorder such as the H4N is to take a stereo feed off of the mixer. Every mixer I have seen has two XLR outlets for stereo output. Run short XLR cables from the board to the H4N, set your levels, and you'll get clean, prfessional sound. The only other alternative is to take two microphones and place one near each of the two speakers from the powered mixer. Be sure to do sound level checks during rehearsal so that you'll be spot on during the performance. By the way, I have an H4N along with an Azden FMX-42a field mixer and together they are the Bomb!
 
ncaudioguy said:
The best way to record a band with a digital recorder such as the H4N is to take a stereo feed off of the mixer.
Click to expand...

Gotta put caution on this one. Think about the PA support: Unless you are recording in a huge venue, the stage volume is plays a significant role. The PA is kind of the opposite of the stage volume. If it's loud on stage, it's going to be quiet in the PA mix, and vice-versa. The best way to record with a minimal setup would be a room pair plus a board feed. Mixing those two should get you close. If you only have a stereo pair, then your suggestion of recording the output of the PA is a good second choice. Finding a good spot in the room to do it is the critical factor.

Straight board mixes usually sound like all vocal and bass drum, as was pointed out.
 
With the H4n, there are a couple of other solutions. Attach the mic stand adapter, mount it on a mic stand, and attach the remote control card. Patch the line outs from the board to the 2 combijacks in, put the H4n up in the air and record with the onboard mics as well. Then you have a 4 track recording with a coincident stereo pair, and a stereo feed from the board on the other 2 tracks- mix to taste. Another alternative is to use a good stereo mic with 3.5mm output (I use SONY ECM MS-957). This will disable the onboard mics, and you still get a stereo room feed and the line level feed from the board. No remote card needed, and you can watch the readout.
 
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