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Thread: Trade offs

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    Trade offs

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    It's all trade offs . Slow tempo down simplify guitar rhythm . Now I can crank up reverb in the space created . Close miked. Cut bass end eq.maybe now I can lose compression which is likely the end its compressing anyway . Not much signal from a top E from what I can see . The nightmare persists

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    Ok....I seem to recall that.......in the last episode..........you were having difficulty getting the "sound" you wanted out of your mic'd acoustic. As I recall you were lamenting that it sounded much better without amplification. Correct? Don't remember what you detailed about the setup. Mic brand.......number of mics.......mic position(s)......guitar brand.....environment.....etc....etc. Now it seems that you're updating us.....right? And so.......you're seemingly saying that in order to get the sound you wanted you needed to slow the tempo down (live or in your 8 track on playback mix).......simplify the guitar rhythm (change how you play it?).........and then add (crank up) reverb to fill or sit in the "space" created by a slower temp and more basic guitar rhythm? And as well......the top E is not giving you as much "signal" (I assume you mean volume) as the other strings? Not clear on that but that could be for a number of reasons.

    So...you've not made progress it seems......or you have??? In any case.......a little more clarity would be helpful if you want us to assist in any way.
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    I'm glad Mickster could translate at least part of this encryption!
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

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    Not to sound pedantic but I find it's easiest to get lost if you don't have an objective. IOW, decide exactly what you want something to sound like before you record or move a fader, pan pot or whatever. If you don't have an particular arrangement and/or timbre that you are aiming at then I say just make multiple copies of different edits so you can hone in on what you do want.
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    I'm on a learning curve whereby certain variables I'm trying to rationalise at the same time . E.g. its only in the last few days I've discovered that many engineers and so forth dont actually compress an acoustic guitar on the way in. On that basis it occurs to me that if its close miked in particular they must be cutting a lot of low end out . Looking at a meter for each individual string a top e for example doesn't really register on the meter anything like as much as the low e . The other possibility is they're placing the mic somewhere else but surely that's more limited in options if its only several inches from the neck anyway . Perhaps they simply do not close mic where its not being compressed. That was just one thought . However I was in the pub at the time and threw various thoughts together at the same time . Hence a steam of consciousness type post .
    Last edited by maxman65; 08-09-2019 at 23:07.

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    Or.....it could be your mic.....your guitar....your style of play.......your environment........your 8 track settings........your mic placement.......etc....etc. Your post makes a couple of statements of “fact” IYO about what most engineers do when recording an acoustic. How did you “discover” this? In an odd sense......you are on this site......I assume....for its value to you in learning and understanding home recording. Instead of making assumptions........why not ask the experts here what you need to know. And........as we have mentioned previously......which you have and will no doubt continue to ignore.......post a sample and my guess is that we will get you to your destination far easier than you are alone.
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxman65 View Post
    I'm on a learning curve whereby certain variables I'm trying to rationalise at the same time . E.g. its only in the last few days I've discovered that many engineers and so forth dont actually compress an acoustic guitar on the way in. On that basis it occurs to me that if its close miked in particular they must be cutting a lot of low end out . Looking at a meter for each individual string a top e for example doesn't really register on the meter anything like as much as the low e . The other possibility is they're placing the mic somewhere else but surely that's more limited in options if its only several inches from the neck anyway . Perhaps they simply do not close mic where its not being compressed. That was just one thought . However I was in the pub at the time and threw various thoughts together at the same time . Hence a steam of consciousness type post .
    Depending on the variables involved (mic, room, guitar, type of playing) moving the mic an inch or angling it a few degrees can make a large difference in the timbre which is why spending the time to learn those available to you can be surprising and helpful.
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    As is often said here and everywhere, including this thread already, acoustic guitar recording results depend on the sum is a lot of variables.

    But, many of those variables can be addressed either going in right, which is where you want to get to, obviously, or with some careful work in the DAW, assuming you get close during the tracking.

    It seems to me like you're trying to guess how to get from A to B, without really understanding the difference between A and B. So, go back and start with your reference tracks, and then your own tracks. From a final result POV, e.g., if it's compression, it honestly doesn't matter much (IMO) whether you do that going in, all ITB, or a little of both. What matters is the result. Same with EQ, etc.

    Short story long, there's just a lot of ways to skin the acoustic guitar recording cat. What you need to do is refine the basics, and especially work on the space and mic placement basics. Post a raw track (via Dropbox) and tell us where you're trying to get with it.
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

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    I could be wrong......and please correct me if I am OP.......but (in a previous post) I think this OP was lamenting that he couldn't get his recorded acoustic guitar track to sound like he perceived it to sound naturally.......as in "unplugged" so to speak. I'm not sure if he uses reference tracks at all anyway........but his dilemma is in trying to translate what his ears hear as he's playing it unplugged...........to the results he gets listening back to his recorded track. Man......from his headphones (or speakers).....to his mic....and it's position.....and the "room" and well.......you get it......there's a myriad of influences between his unplugged sound perception......to the recorded track sound perception. Despite several attempts it seems......he's not happy with his results. Your suggestion of a reference track for his guitar sound is the right way to go of course.
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    A reference track is something I like the sound of ?maybe something like Joan Armatrading love and affection but realistically that's probably not a great example anyway because I'm pretty sure that's a 12 string . Nevertheless its atmospheric and present at the same time . Update - just listened to it . It's the package. I like what that song is doing . Plenty atmosphere but nothing which is communicating is getting buried . Actually there's a lot less guitar in There than I used to imagine . I guess it's an example of a track in its entirity.
    Last edited by maxman65; 08-10-2019 at 23:16.

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