Tempo Changes

nave

nave

Cave Relic
Hello peeps,

I would like to address this question primarily to those who are programming their own drum beats to rock n roll type music....Using drum machines, soundfounts and sequencers etc etc...........However, I welcome anyones opinion ofcourse :)


Typically, How often are you using tempo changes in ordinary songs? Are you using them at all? (by ordinary song , I mean songs that don't rely on tempo changes as a back bone of the song) e.g. maybe at the very end of a song you use a tempo change inorder to get that natural ending to a song......Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Are you ever using slight/hardly noticable tempo changes throughout a song to loosen things up at all, as opposed to using humanization/quantizing?


I used to have a drummer, now I don't......:D I need answers to these questions cause I'm just starting to use drum machines...Any advice on this stuff?


Thanks

- nave
 
When the music's slow, I vary the tempo all the time, and no, I haven't found a way to do this in Fruity Loops.
 
mmm...

Hi people!

First of all, I write the song... if it has or needs tempo changes then I use them...

Cakewalk allows yo to set different tempos within a song, just read the help file...it's simple...

I prefer Fruity Loops, but I do all the same-tempo loops (example 100 BpM) I export them, then I do all the 80 BpM's, I export them, and then I use them in the order I want in a multitrack soft (Vegas, Cool Edit, N-track, Acid...) just paste anything you want wherever you like...

Hope this helps

Peace...

PC
 
Thanx folks



Powercouple.......I completely understand how to insert tempo changes into a song using whatever software...That's not my problem at all :)....




Currently none of my songs that I plan to record in the near future have tempo changes....At least, not in terms of how I see it.....That is, I wouldn't expect to use tempo changes at all with any of them...The songs are already written on manuscript paper they do not have tempo changes....I'm just wondering if there should be slight tempo changes to avoid it sounding static or too computer like....


Dobro, you answered my question pretty well...I suspect when you say that, that if you were to play the same songs fast there would be no tempo changes at all? Am I right? That you are just using slight tempo changes that are hardly noticable in order to make it more humanistic? I'm talking like 1 or 2 maybe 3 bpm's as an alternative to humanization presets on software programs..

This is harder to explain than I thought it would be...

Anyone else?


-nave
 
I want to understand...

are you talking about small "mistakes" (let me call them that way so i can figure it out)

I mean...slight variations to make it sound "natural"?

Peace...

PC
 
Some drum machines have swing functions that allow you to vary the swing factor in your songs so that it sounds like a drummer playing behind the beat.. I tried to play with it on my machine, but it just makes everything come out sounding like a strip tease..

I guess if you wanted to, you could vary the tempo slightly, but when I'm listening to a song, I'm not all that focused on whether my machine is keeping too perfect a time..

Another option that works out real well is to try and keep more spaces in between pieces of the drum kit.. for example, instead of your standard kick on 1 and 3, put the second kick on the "and" of 3.. or change the hi hat pattern so that it's not always hitting on the quarter notes.. open space gives the listener the impression that the drummer is playing into a groove.. Granted, it takes a bit of trial and error.. but what doesn't?

Cy
 
Cyrokk said:
Some drum machines have swing functions that allow you to vary the swing factor in your songs so that it sounds like a drummer playing behind the beat.. I tried to play with it on my machine, but it just makes everything come out sounding like a strip tease..

I guess if you wanted to, you could vary the tempo slightly, but when I'm listening to a song, I'm not all that focused on whether my machine is keeping too perfect a time..

Another option that works out real well is to try and keep more spaces in between pieces of the drum kit.. for example, instead of your standard kick on 1 and 3, put the second kick on the "and" of 3.. or change the hi hat pattern so that it's not always hitting on the quarter notes.. open space gives the listener the impression that the drummer is playing into a groove.. Granted, it takes a bit of trial and error.. but what doesn't?

Cy
Click to expand...


Yah the "swing" thing and the "spaces" with the on the "ands" etc etc etc.............Ofcourse I already know that stuff....:mad:


I guess I was just wondering ....if there was anyone out there doing tempo changes in place of the "swing" feature, the "huminization" etc etc.....

I thought maybe there was a trick I didn't know.......Oh well...


- nave


P.S.... the mad face above......................just a joke :D
 
Nave - yeah you understand what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a simple tempo shift from 100 bpm to 80 bpm - I'm talking about how, at the end of a slow verse maybe, the tempo slows down and maybe it's followed by a pause of indeterminate length, and how at the end of the song, not only does the tempo slow down, but the RATE OF SLOWDOWN ITSELF changes. I don't see how you can program that. It needs a musician, I think.
 
I've only written maybe 2 pieces that had a difinitive tempo change within them.
Like you said, after a chorus of bridge. I got around this with a little cheating.
Lets say I'm at 120bpm 4:4 time. I want to throw in, for whatever reason, 3:4 time at 100bpm following a bridge. I'm using twin T3's, when my sequenced portion arrives at the location I want a tempo change, I basically begin a new song which can be appended to the tail end of the existing. I program in maybe a high hat (3 beat) as a guide.(this is later removed). Proceed with the 3:4 piece. Quantize the pieces individually. Seems to work okay for me. No abrupt endings or stammered beginnings.
Just my thots....
Good Luck!!!
 
Dont use tempo changes unless you are doing classical or classical/metal and have distinct movements or crescendos that might speed up.

For pop and rock the only time it may be appropriate is for a weird break or bridge section. Subtle tempo changes would just sound like you dont know what you are doing. I could possibly see speeding up by 1 or 2 towards the end of a song to give it a little oomph but I would be very carefull with that.
 
When I program rock and pop songs, I usually make small tempo changes. I ALWAYS do it when I program click tracks for drummers to play along with.

An example: Say the verse is 120 bpm, I shift to 121 in the beginning of the bridge, and then a bar before the chorus breaks in, I go up to 122. And then back to 120 next verse.

Have you ever noticed that when you hear certain songs, you get the feeling the drummer plays slower in the chorus than on the verse? Chances are that drummer played along with a steady beat, that didn't speed up a little during intense passages. This gives you the feeling that the tempo drops, even though it actually is steady.

If you like, you can listen to my band Polyester. Our drummer uses a click track, and it's programmed with slight tempo changes. http://polyester.just.nu

Cheers
/Henrik
 
My drum program is GUI based, and I often move beats a few milliseconds off from "Perfect" to help prevent that machine feeling. It works OK. It's just a pain in the ass.
 
Alright.....These replies are more along the lines of what I'm trying to communicate to you people......


Thanks


- nave
 
Henrik.....Thanks for the link and the reply....You said exactly what I wanted to here...OR more accurately, what I thought was going on......


BTW, you guys sound good, Ive heard you before as well in the mp3 clinic now that I think about it...



-thanks again


- nave
 
Sure, no trouble. I read an interview with Depeche Mode a few years ago, and they also mentioned speeding up the choruses a bit. And that's Depeche Mode!

An important thing to remember when you're programming for a drummer to play over, is that the drummer is going to react a little late to the tempo change. So if you want the change to occur when the chorus starts, you program it a few seconds ahead.

Glad you liked our songs!

Cheers
/Henrik
 
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