Recording screaming...

G

guitarsg1

New member
Hi everyone. Well, I am currently recording a "hardcore" band that has all screaming, and we are having some trouble getting the screams to sound as visceral as they do on other recordings...so far the best mic we've used is a 57, but it still doesn't come out very strong...sounds too "live". When this guy screams through a PA it sounds great...I've even tried miking the PA but that sounded pretty poor. I'm not sure what else to do, I threw some compression and reverb on it to fatten it up, doubled it and panned them opposite one another, but I was just wondering if anyone had any other tips.

Also, what's the deal with all these modern bands whose vocals just soar above the mix...none of these guys can sing worth sh*t live, but on recording they sound incredible...I still don't really understand how that is, I have pretty good gear and mics and plug ins but whenever these bands want me to recreate that sound I can't do it that great...I mean these singers I record are no better/worse than a lot of these new young bands, but still, I must be missing something. Anyways, thanks for reading.
 
Something that I would rarely suggest on the input...

Insert two channels of compression - While the guy is screaming, set comp1 to 10:1 and adjust the threshold for around 3-4dB of reduction, pretty fast attack, relatively slow release.

Go out of comp1 directly into comp2

Set comp2's threshold to -25 or 30dB - While screaming and comp1 is at 3-4dB of reduction, set comp2 to another 3-4dB of reduction. Keep in mind that this is going to be at a ratio of 1.2:1 or so.

The idea is to keep the screaming under control and then gently scoop everything else. A dynamic mic will help a bit also (RE-20 would be my favorite in this case).

Obviously, experimentation is key - If you're a little weirded out by 2 comps in line on the input, just run the limiter (comp1) and apply the other later.

Hope this helps. Used it on... Let's just say "dozens" of metal albums with fine results.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
A good outboard compressor could do the trick. Try to rent something with tubes (I had a great effect with the Tube Tech compressor!), or use a tube plugin, they can really give your scream extra warmth.

I would also consider adding a little analog distortion on your vocals! Seriously, with screams a little distortion on vocals can work. Use a plugin, I even used an old broken boss monito or even m guitar POD to record slighlty distorted vocals.
 
I'm glad that this post is here, because I'm going to be recording a "screamer" in a couple of weeks. The singer I'm recording, though, transitions from sung parts to screaming parts fairly frequently, sometimes in the middle of a line, so tracking screamed and sung vocals separately would be fairly difficult for my meager skills.

My question is (directed primarily to Massive Master) do you think this double compression technique would work for that type of singing? If not, any other suggestions?

I'm guessing that the technique you described is, ideally, compressing the screamed vocals quite a bit with Comp1 while allowing the un-screamed vocals to "sneak" through uncompressed, and then using Comp2 to compress all the vocals, screamed or otherwise. I could be way off base though.

Thanks.

Edit: If you want to hear a sample of the vocals in question, the band's URL is www.sevenseasrock.com and there's a 4-track reccording posted on the site.
 
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I actually use a variation on this type of compression as the norm on the hard rock type stuff. For screamers, it's a bit more dramatic...

The point of it is to limit the peaks first (comp1) and then the very low ratio/threshold on comp2 keeps the signal in a mild state of compression almost constantly.

Attack & release will play a big role in how this works but if applied carefully, it can work wonders on way-out vocals.

John -
 
i agree with the double compression...i did that by accident but its the best way... i used a condensor mic with a -10db setting on it. try a little post eq on the mid-low end and double it....it thickened mine up decently.....and how some of those guys can scream and growl and still smoke I'll never know......i damn near threw up. i know that was probably a little too much info but if i record a screamer again.....I'm going to have a bucket handy just in case
 
Massive Master said:
I actually use a variation on this type of compression as the norm on the hard rock type stuff. For screamers, it's a bit more dramatic...

The point of it is to limit the peaks first (comp1) and then the very low ratio/threshold on comp2 keeps the signal in a mild state of compression almost constantly.

Attack & release will play a big role in how this works but if applied carefully, it can work wonders on way-out vocals.

John -
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot. I'm pretty anxious to try out a lot of the techniques that I've read about here. My main concern was that the difference in overall levels between singing and screaming would be difficult to handle, but this dual-compression method sounds like it will (logically) do the trick. If you've got any advice for the other thread I just started, I would be more than happy to hear it.

By the way, what metal records have you worked on? Anything for any of the larger labels (Metal Blade, Relapse, Earache, Nuclear Blast, etc)?
 
Manowar (Universal / Metal Blade), Testament (Don't remember)... Uhh... Trouble's side project (Wet Animal - Def Amercian?)... I really should keep track of this stuff...

Had two on the Grammy ballot last year in the Metal categories - ("Rock/Metal Album" & "Rock/Metal Performance") with Metal Militia's Perpetual State of Agression (SWI). Didn't hit, though. Me so sad. :(

I've done so much indie metal I can't stand it. Not that I can't stand it, we just used to be pigeon-holed as "the metal studio" at the old place. It's nice to get some jazz in once a while, you know?

And, as no doubt aware of, Metal is NOT the easiest thing to record... Especially if the band doesn't quite have their act together!

Mastering indie metal is even worse - None of these bands can walk out of a studio without their stuff sounding as loud as (???), and I get these mangled crappy overcompressed mixes in and they want me to "fix" it.

Anyway, gotta get moving. Mastering some indie metal tonight.

John -
 
One old school trick for recording metal if the band isn't tight enough is too have them tune down down a half step, play a little slower and slow down the recorder while recording. You need varispeed and look it up on a chart to see how much you need to match a half step. I cant remember right now.

When you play it back at regular speed they will be in tune and a little tighter. If you record a click with a tuning reference then slow it down they can tune to that or you can find the speed that matches a half step.

I realize this has nothing to do with compressing screamers but might help if the band sucks, lol.
 
Originally posted by TexRoadkill I realize this has nothing to do with compressing screamers but might help if the band sucks, lol.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this was directed towards me or not, but if it was, the band I'll be recording is actually really tight. I used to be a member four or so years ago before the allure of going to college beckoned me. The core members of the band (guitarist and drummer) have been playing together for probably six or seven years now, and their new bassist is pretty good (and very steady and accurate) from everything that I can tell. I'm just not expecting the vocals to be a very easy task, since the singer has zero formal (or informal) vocal training that I know of. He was actually a pretty good friend of mine in high school, and he was one of the quietest people I know, so how he can sing the way he does came as a complete shock to me. In any event, I've been looking forward to recording this band for the past couple months, and I want to do everything in my power to achieve the best results possible with what I've got, so I thank you both for your suggestions.
 
Massive Master said:
Something that I would rarely suggest on the input...

Insert two channels of compression - While the guy is screaming, set comp1 to 10:1 and adjust the threshold for around 3-4dB of reduction, pretty fast attack, relatively slow release.

Go out of comp1 directly into comp2

Set comp2's threshold to -25 or 30dB - While screaming and comp1 is at 3-4dB of reduction, set comp2 to another 3-4dB of reduction. Keep in mind that this is going to be at a ratio of 1.2:1 or so.

The idea is to keep the screaming under control and then gently scoop everything else. A dynamic mic will help a bit also (RE-20 would be my favorite in this case).

Obviously, experimentation is key - If you're a little weirded out by 2 comps in line on the input, just run the limiter (comp1) and apply the other later.

Hope this helps. Used it on... Let's just say "dozens" of metal albums with fine results.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much how I get it to work, sometimes I have to be more extreme but once you figure what direction to move in its all tweak a little twist a little. A couple of other mic's that work good are the Shure SM7 and the Sennheiser Md421 in S mode.

SoMm
 
most bands I record have massive screaming. not to mention my own.

I find it FINE to mic them all with the C1. First off, if the mic distorts, tite. it sounds better. If I really don't want it to distort, move them back 6 inches and I pop on a -10 or -20db mic pad.

Lastly, Just compress it as nessecary, I can't stress that enough. I get my stuff to sound GREAT with that. And really, the vocals will sound better if the guitars/kick drum/bass all sit well with eachother.

I got some mp3s I can send you if you'd want, but you'd have to IM me on AIM: THELBIGS

PEACE
 
Adam P said:
I'm just not expecting the vocals to be a very easy task, since the singer has zero formal (or informal) vocal training that I know of.
Click to expand...

Make sure that he knows enuff to back off the mic when he screams. It'll make your job much easier.
 
Lots of good suggestions already mentioned. I am still curious about how you are planning on doubling the vocals. If you are just duplicating the original track then panning left and right that won't do you any good. Have the vocalist perform twice instead. If you can't do that then at least apply very slight pitch movement and very slight delay on one the copied vocal track.

NWSM
 
Very nice tips... Some more ideas:

use mic distortion... Makes the sound a lot fatter. Condensers may work nicer for that... (Maybe even cheap ones?)

You might think of using two mics simultaneously: one for the sung parts and one for the screams. Both can be set up the way they need...

Compression during recording will absolutely be necessary.

You might think of using a multiband compressor afrter having recorded. That may give a lot of power...

aXel

P.S. I once recorded a song with every thing from whisper to loud shouting... I had to remove the loudest parts, as they were too thin as I had to move a way from the mic when shouting... So don't forget that the missing proximity effect may thin up your sound a lot on louder parts...
 
i suggest using a condenser mic with tube preamp just put a 20 db pad on it and use hard compression and watever else u want like reverb delay distortion

you can also expeiriment by adding the 57 to tht setup it could extra raw tone u might like
goodluck
 
For my one-man black metal band (is it a band if it's just one guy?) the vocals are all screamed. I just use an SM58 with a pop filter. From there the signal goes through an old Pro-Co Rat guitar distortion pedal (used mostly for the eq and a very, very small amount of distortion. I get most of the distortion from cranking the mic level way up. I also use a lot of reverb and very little compression. It's wierd, but it works. Of course, black metal vocals (and the overall sound in general) are meant to be very cold sounding and back in the mix, so I don't know if that what you're shooting for.
 
My suggestion would be a trick I learned from a professor at The Recording Workshop...in the booth have two mics...the first mic(SM57) should be 7-10 inches from the vocalist(plug a cable into it...but dont plug it into the mixer) this mic is for show. Then set up the second mic(a large diaphram) about 2-3 feet from the vocalist. turn the gain up a bit more on the 2nd mic to where when he is screaming the level is set just right. This will keep the vocals sounding pretty tight and not overbearing. if they have say verses that are quiet and then the chorus is screaming then plug in mic #1 and use it to get the verse vocals and mic #2 to get the screams. between those two mics you shold be able to get a great sounding Vox track!!
 
WHOA!

You recorded Testament? That blows my mind. Just out of curiosity, how "tight" were they in the studio?
 
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