How to get a professional sounding sound?

[xpunkskaterx]

My band is going to make a demo sometime in the next couple weeks. We would like to do it ourselves and get the best quality possible. We don't really know what the best way to go about it is. So any suggestions about how to get the best drum, guitars, or bass sound would be awesome.

To start, we have an Alesis 12 Firewire mixer that everything will be done with... and we'll probably be using either garageband or cubase LE to record. (any suggestions as to which one?)

For drums we have 5 drum mics. I can't remember which brand they are, but they will do snare, kick, and the three toms. As for the cymbals, we are not sure how to get the best sound. We have 1 china, two crashs, ride and hithat. Any ideas?

For guitar we're using a Traynor Custom Special 50H head through a Vox cabinet. So would it be better to mic the cab, or run direct through the head? As well, we have two guitarists, so when recording we want one to be through the left channel, and one through the right. We know how to accomplish this, but how many layers of each guitar should we record.

For bass, I don't remember what kind of amp we're using but should we mic the amp or run direct? How loud should bass be compared to guitars/drums?

One of our guitarists works at an Audio/Visual department for a university, so we can use an unlimited supply of mics, etc. So suggest anything to us. Thanks

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

My band is going to make a demo sometime in the next couple weeks. We would like to do it ourselves and get the best quality possible. We don't really know what the best way to go about it is. So any suggestions about how to get the best drum, guitars, or bass sound

Seriously, if you want the best quality possible, or anything even close to a professional sound, don't do it yourself. You don't have the knowledge or experience, you don't have the gear, you don't have the right acoustic space, and you need to be spending your time worrying about having the band ready in front of the glass, not all the recording crap that goes on behind the glass.

Practice your asses off first. That is absolute rule #1. Have your instruments tuned and ready. Fresh skins on the drums, tuned *properly*, fresh strings on all the guitars, tuned properly, fresh batteries in all your FX boxes, etc. And backup sets for all of that.

Leave all drugs and alcohol at home. Then take the three hundred bucks you saved on drugs and alcohol and some cheap piece of gear you didn't buy just because that guy at Guitar Center promised it would make you sound like Coldplay, and spend it instead on a day or two in a good-sounding studio room with an experienced engineer and producer with fifteen years of experience piloting the controls of the studio gear, which alone cost about as much as the house you live in.

G.

 

[toobalicious]

sage advice, and with a predictable (hopefully ) outcome.

then again, since this is HOMErecording.com, it probably wasnt the answer you were looking for. (no disrespect intended to SS glen). and the "practice your asses off" thing couldnt be more true. 1st takes are often the best (sometimes by a longshot, even), but if the band isnt tight, your chances of nailing it are greatly diminished.

do you have any friends with more or better experience/equipment/space? that is probably the cheapest avenue for you, from my limited understanding of your situation. there are artists/recordists on this very forum that turn out really really fine sounding stuff, and often with decidedly budget equipment. as with many other things, a lot of times it isnt WHAT youve got, but HOW you use it. also, strongly consider professional mastering. not the cheapest venture, perhaps, but it can REALLY make a huge difference in the final product.

ok, so that really isnt much in the way of "advice", but dont be tricked into believing that one cannot produce perfectly good sounding stuff at home for little $$$.

 

[warlock110]

time is a problem here, I personally think for a "demo" you can actually get decent quality IF you have the gear/knowledge to do it, gear wise I think if you're working as a group and multiple people pitch in, that problem can be solve, but knowledge do require time and experience. So in this situation it's pretty dam hard to make it work.

 

[Sonixx]

Seriously, if you want the best quality possible, or anything even close to a professional sound, don't do it yourself.

I'm 180 degrees out from this recommendation. There's no time like the present to start learning.

If you have time, maybe do some tracks and post parts here for input.

Good luck.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

then again, since this is HOMErecording.com, it probably wasnt the answer you were looking for

I'm 180 degrees out from this recommendation. There's no time like the present to start learning.

If you have time, maybe do some tracks and post parts here for input.

Good luck.

I understand where you guys are coming from, but I'd point out that while this may be HOME recording, this is not what the OP was asking for. He was asking how to make a PROFESSIONAL-grade demo and how to do it in two weeks time (or at least that was how long he expected it to take.)

With equal respect to both of you as well, anybody who is going to tell this guy that he can achieve his desires himself with the gear he has available without a cosmological amount of luck, natural engineering savant-ness, Divine intervention, or most likely a measure of all three, is just deceiving him as much as any GC salesperson is.

G.

 

[Sonixx]

anybody who is going to tell this guy that he can achieve his desires himself with the gear he has available without a cosmological amount of luck, natural engineering savant-ness, Divine intervention, or most likely a measure of all three, is just deceiving him as much as any GC salesperson is.

I could agree if that's what I had stated.

who does not want their recordings to be the best achievable and the OP wants to do it himself... comes to HOMERECORDING and is told basically to forget it. the OP may have a talent for this.

would it have been better if the OP had stated "I want to make mediocre recordings"... we'd be able to help then

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

So you're saying that someone with a level of knowledge where he's asking how loud bass should be compared to guitar - i.e. has no clue as to what sound he's even going for yet - with an Alesis mixer, no microphone technique whatsoever, no good live room, and is specifically asking for a professional sound, is going to get it in two years, let alone two weeks? And that he can do it for anywhere near the low price that he could get it done for in the studio?

We're not here to give people the answers they want to hear, we're here to give them honest answers. This is Home Recording, not Delusion Central.

To the OP: you want to do it yourself, fine. What you need for a professional-sounding demo (besides what we already talked about, which is making sure your band is actually ready to record) is a set of really good-sounding rooms in which to record, to replace that Alesis mixer for some quality microphones and preamps, a decent multi-channel interface for your computer, an acoustically-treated room in which to do your mixing (in Cubase, not Garage Band, BTW), a decent set of studio monitors on which to do your mixing, a decent set of EQs, compressors, and limiters, a knowledge of how to actually use all that stuff, and practice mixing and learning how to translate your mixes to the outside world.

And you need to do it all for under $300 to be cheaper than the studio.

And you need to prepare and learn all that stuff in two weeks when your band is ready.

Good luck. You'll need it.

G.

 

[Sonixx]

So you're saying that someone with a level of knowledge where he's asking how loud bass should be compared to guitar - i.e. has no clue as to what sound he's even going for yet - with an Alesis mixer, no microphone technique whatsoever, no good live room, and is specifically asking for a professional sound, is going to get it in two years, let alone two weeks? And that he can do it for anywhere near the low price that he could get it done for in the studio?

No I didn't say that, you did.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

No I didn't say that, you did.

Good. There's no disagreement then .

G.

 

[Sonixx]

To start, we have an Alesis 12 Firewire mixer that everything will be done with... and we'll probably be using either garageband or cubase LE to record. (any suggestions as to which one?)

I use Samplitude but my recommendation is to find something flexible and learn it up down and sideways.

For drums we have 5 drum mics. I can't remember which brand they are, but they will do snare, kick, and the three toms. As for the cymbals, we are not sure how to get the best sound. We have 1 china, two crashs, ride and hithat. Any ideas?

I prefer thin cymbals except for the ride. I like Zildjian Custom Fast Crash K. They aren't that loud get out of the way fast.

I ask the drummer to hit the drums hard and finesse the cymbals.

For guitar we're using a Traynor Custom Special 50H head through a Vox cabinet. So would it be better to mic the cab, or run direct through the head? As well, we have two guitarists, so when recording we want one to be through the left channel, and one through the right. We know how to accomplish this, but how many layers of each guitar should we record.

Two things, getting a good tone and mic placement. Dial what you think sounds good, then move the mic, track a small piece, listen and start over.

Another method is to take a line level from the amp's output and then process it using Cab Impulse files that simulate the cab. There are a lot of free impulse files available

For bass, I don't remember what kind of amp we're using but should we mic the amp or run direct? How loud should bass be compared to guitars/drums?

Either. maybe start with DI and look for some free Bass Plugins. This is the key instrument though and probably will be a real challenge.

One of our guitarists works at an Audio/Visual department for a university, so we can use an unlimited supply of mics, etc. So suggest anything to us. Thanks

Guitar - Ribbons Can sound dull at first but can fit very nicely. Initially stay away from using two mics.

Kick - D112 or D6

Snare - i5, 57

Toms: D2, 421

Overheads: I like SDC or a Blumlein Pair out front. Understand the phase aspects of mic placement for all mics on the kit. i.e. Top, Bottom and Distance

If using two mics on the same source, learn how to manage the phase aspects of multiple mics on a single source. If you get into a hurry it will sound like it.

 

[xpunkskaterx]

wow. didn't expect everyone here to be so... cranky...

anyways, maybe i should have said so in the original post, but i've been fooling around recording bands and stuff at home for 3 years now. I'm never really happy with the final sound that I get, so I was hoping for some suggestions. As for a "pro" sound... I just needed some kind of subject for the thread... I obviously realize that i'll never get a pro sounding demo on my budget and gear. I know there is a tonne of shit that I don't know and I was hoping for some suggestions...

 

[xpunkskaterx]

I use Samplitude but my recommendation is to find something flexible and learn it up down and sideways.



I prefer thin cymbals except for the ride. I like Zildian Custom Fast Crash K. They get out of the way fast.

I tell the drummer to hit the drums hard and finesse the cymbals.



Two things, getting a good tone and mic placement. Dial what you think sounds good, then move the mic, track a small piece, listen and start over.

Another method is to take a line off the output and to use Cab Impulses files to simulate the cab. There are alot of free impules files available





Either. maybe start with DI and look for some free Bass Plugins. This is the key instrument though and probably will be a real challenge.




Guitar - Ribbons Can sound dull at first but can fit very nicely. Initially stay away from using two mics.

Kick - D112 or D6

Snare - i5, 57

Toms: D2, 421

Overheads: I like SDC or a Blumlien Pair out front. Understand the phase aspects of mic placement for all mics on the kit. i.e. Top, Bottom and Distance

If using two mics on the same source, learn how to manage the phase aspects of multiple mics on a single source. If you get into a hurry it will sound like it.

thank you very much... this is the exact kind of reply I was hoping for.

 

[toobalicious]

(no disrespect intended to SS glen)

SS glen has made many valid points, and hopefully the OP will consider them.

just FWIW, i have built my studio piece by piece over time. yes, my skills have improved over time. no, i probably cannot compete with a $100,000 (or more ) studio. furthermore, i am not certain i could compete even if i were allowed to USE that $100,000 studio without help. still, i am very thankful that i have:
(a) learned a LOT about acoustics, recording, mixing, electronics, gain staging, etc etc etc.
(b) built a modest studio capable of recording a band all-at-once with everything miced, that has reasonable sound quality. some of those expenditures were certainly in lieu of paying for studio time, though i have gone that route as well. those studios didnt produce anything "good" enough for sony either, BTW.
(c) recorded myself, my bands/projects, and other bands/projects over time, and thus adding to (a) and (b).

while david geffen may not be interested in my recordings, i would not be too intimidated to compare them with (a lot!) of independent releases, both old and new.

just like everything else, you have to start somewhere--- but there is a lot to consider in finding the "correct" answer for the OP.

 

[toobalicious]

lol, my last post shouldve been before this one. life got in the way for a minute, and i just hit "submit" anyway.

So you're saying that someone with a level of knowledge where he's asking how loud bass should be compared to guitar - i.e. has no clue as to what sound he's even going for yet - with an Alesis mixer, no microphone technique whatsoever, no good live room, and is specifically asking for a professional sound, is going to get it in two years, let alone two weeks? And that he can do it for anywhere near the low price that he could get it done for in the studio?

We're not here to give people the answers they want to hear, we're here to give them honest answers. This is Home Recording, not Delusion Central.

To the OP: you want to do it yourself, fine. What you need for a professional-sounding demo (besides what we already talked about, which is making sure your band is actually ready to record) is a set of really good-sounding rooms in which to record, to replace that Alesis mixer for some quality microphones and preamps, a decent multi-channel interface for your computer, an acoustically-treated room in which to do your mixing (in Cubase, not Garage Band, BTW), a decent set of studio monitors on which to do your mixing, a decent set of EQs, compressors, and limiters, a knowledge of how to actually use all that stuff, and practice mixing and learning how to translate your mixes to the outside world.

And you need to do it all for under $300 to be cheaper than the studio.

And you need to prepare and learn all that stuff in two weeks when your band is ready.

Good luck. You'll need it.

G.

 

[NL5]

The biggest thing you can do to get a pro sound is go to a pro studio. It really is that simple.

Barring that, the two biggest things you can do to get "more" professional results, are getting the best source sound you can. Pro bands sound pro mainly because they sound pro. (again, it really is that simple). They next biggest thing you can do is to get your mixing room as flat as possible and really learn the room and the monitors. If the room sounds bad, the mix will too. (I know I said this twice already, but it really is that simple!)


Good luck!

 

[Riffmaster]

Is this demo to send to labels or to try and get gigs? If it's for potential gigs, the most important part it to get your band to sound like your band, so the setup you described would be ok for that.

 

[Sonixx]

another thing about gtr and bass is if you can mic the amp and take a DI at the same time, this may save your butt because you will then be able to reamp later. it's very good insurance.

also, it may be easier to align DI gtr tracks with the kit before reamping to fix any issues. if these guys are one takers then good for you, but probably not.

also, there's a lot of info about Impulse files and recording in general on the Andy Sneap Forum. the forum may not be your cup of tea but the info is useful

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

anyways, maybe i should have said so in the original post, but i've been fooling around recording bands and stuff at home for 3 years now. I'm never really happy with the final sound that I get, so I was hoping for some suggestions. As for a "pro" sound... I just needed some kind of subject for the thread... I obviously realize that i'll never get a pro sounding demo on my budget and gear. I know there is a tonne of shit that I don't know and I was hoping for some suggestions...

Well, that is a completely different situation. The "cranky" response was only because of a completely nonsensical opening question where you were going to record for the very first time with nothing but a noisy mixer and access to a couple of microphones and expected to be able to make a pro-quality demo recording. You gotta admit that is pretty needle-in-the-arm of an expectation and question.

Seriously, there is only one question here that counts: what is it about what you have done so far that doesn't sound good enough?

And - I am being happily serious here, not cranky or any other negative adjective - what you need above all is to be able to answer that second question accurately and specifically. Only when you can do that will you actually have the ear to actually ID your problems. And only when you can ID your problems can you then ID your solutions.

Until then, what you need for a professional-sounding demo (besides what we already talked about, which is making sure your band is actually ready to record) is a set of really good-sounding rooms in which to record, to replace that Alesis mixer for some quality microphones and preamps, a decent multi-channel interface for your computer, an acoustically-treated room in which to do your mixing (in Cubase, not Garage Band, BTW), a decent set of studio monitors on which to do your mixing, a decent set of EQs, compressors, and limiters, a knowledge of how to actually use all that stuff, and practice mixing and learning how to translate your mixes to the outside world.

G.

 

[starbuck26]

wow. didn't expect everyone here to be so... cranky...

anyways, maybe i should have said so in the original post, but i've been fooling around recording bands and stuff at home for 3 years now. I'm never really happy with the final sound that I get, so I was hoping for some suggestions. As for a "pro" sound... I just needed some kind of subject for the thread... I obviously realize that i'll never get a pro sounding demo on my budget and gear. I know there is a tonne of shit that I don't know and I was hoping for some suggestions...

I read through this whole post just now with interest... We've just got done recording a "demo" of about 6 songs on our own, in our houses. It took about four months of constant work, about a thousand takes, and many hours sitting in front of... textbooks. So, IMHO, before you rush to call Glen and others "cranky," you should examine a bit of the impulse behind it. There are reasons to build a home studio and there are reasons to go to a professional studio.

In this specific case, before worrying about how-to-mic this, and what to do with that, and what gear you need, etc. i think you should examine the overall goal of the project. What's the point?

My band records almost everything we do, and there are several different uses of all the material.

First: In home. You write a riff, and you want to remember it.
Second: Recording rehearsals/jams. You all write riffs and want to remember all of it.
Third: You want to have some shit on myspace to get shows.
Fourth: You want something to sell at shows to make enough gas money to get to the next one.

Each of these goals requires a different approach, a different amount of time, and ultimately, money.

From your post, I'm assuming it's somewhere between 2 and 3.

So here's what I would do:

I would spend approximately 70 bucks on two Behringer ECM8000s (SDC omnis) from 8th Street Music. I'd spend a few hours reading about stereo mic placement. Then I would take the band to a comfy space... set your shit up like you would at a show, mic the room nicely, and flip the laptop on, and track the whole thing live. Listen back... make adjustments... record again... listen back. put some kids in the room while you're playing. tell them to sing along. listen back.

Are they going to be the greatest recordings? No. Will everything be pretty clear and audible? Yes. Long as you put some time and care into it.

IMHO, capturing an 'energy' is more than an amalgamation of gear. If you're playing your ass off it will shine through, whether it's smeared across two inch tape or clipping the internal mic on your laptop.

That's how i'm feeling today, at least.