How do I get good drum sound from...

Rokket

Rokket

Trailing Behind Again
I have only a low grade drum machine (Yamaha DD-55), and a Yamaha keyboard with built in drums. I don't have access to a real kit, or a drummer to play it. I see all the advice here is geared toward real drum kits and drum mic placements, but how can I get a drum machine to sound that good? Recording each drum to a separate track is not an option, but recording in stereo is. HELP! My drums sound pathetic in the mix. :confused:
 
One more thing, I can't program the loops on either machine. Partly because I don't know how, and also don't even know if it's possible, so are there any solutions on recording fills and such?
 
Without the ability to individually tailor each drum you're in trouble. You will get decent results but not great.

Check out an R8 MK II Drum Machine by Roland. 10 individual outputs. Great sound. Sounds better than any drum machine on the market now.
 
rokket. instead of laying out hard earned cash for a drum machine.
just rent a few and record the individual sounds as wave audio clips.
then i use the free hotstepper to build drum tracks (you could even sample a dog barking or ANYTHING...let your imagination roam).
once happy i export as a stereo wave into powertracks multitrack software i use. then add the other tracks. you can also buy CD's with superbly recorded drums. google for "clearmountain drums" and there are many others on the net. you can also buy CD's of drum loops. then i just bring the loop into powertracks. and paste it XX times. good for quick drum tracks.
if you got any more Q's just ask.
hotstepper lets you literally "paint" the drum (or any samples) where you want them. you can also "tune" the samples.
peace.
 
Thanks again for you help!I will give this a shot when I get home. I will report my results later! Thanks again!
 
Manning!

manning1 said:
rokket. free hotstepper to build drum tracks (you could even sample a dog barking or ANYTHING...let your imagination roam).
once happy i export as a stereo wave into powertracks multitrack software i use. then add the other tracks...google for "clearmountain drums" and there are many others on the net... hotstepper lets you literally "paint" the drum (or any samples) where you want them. you can also "tune" the samples.
peace.
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How do I use hotstepper? It's a stand-alone program, right? I seem to remember you don't like plug-ins. I tried that drumagog thing, but I couldn't figure out how to use it. My biggest problem isn't really the sound of the drum tracks as much as the fact that I can't program fills into my drum machines. I think I could record them as waves and cut and paste. Will hotstepper do that for me so that I don't have to spend hours with cut and paste? Thanks again. I'm glad you answered me!
 
Instead of being lazy why don't you learn how to program drum rolls? It is NOT HARD. If you have to have a drummer show you some rudiments and how drums are constructed. Trust me--IT IS NOT HARD.

Don't be a quitter.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Instead of being lazy why don't you learn how to program drum rolls? It is NOT HARD. If you have to have a drummer show you some rudiments and how drums are constructed. Trust me--IT IS NOT HARD.

Don't be a quitter.
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I'm not being lazy, I have zero budget because I am retiring from the Navy this year. I am going into a much more lucrative field after that, and then I can spend money on better eqipment. Until then I have what I have. If you had paid attention to my post, you'd know that I can't program my drum machines. They are K-mart low budget specials with just about 100 pre-programmed "styles", and not set up to program anything into them. It's all I have right now. I downloaded the program Manning told me about, and I am just trying to figure out how to use it. I am not the most computer savvy person here. Give me a break and stop busting my ass for trying to get some help from a pro, or semi-pro, or whoever. I know how to do what I want to do, but I was looking to see if maybe there was a quicker way to get it done and not stifle my creativity. If you can help me, help me. The sarcasm isn't helping.
 
rokket. you are not alone in trying to do fills properly.
frankly its very difficult. i dont know of any drum program that does fills properly.NO PERFECT SOLUTION ive found yet. the only way i know is to get a drum cd of samples with fills on,
but they might not fit in to the song your trying to do.
fills are a laborious manual editing process. and hotstepper wont help in this regard. its just for building quick drum tracks out of samples.

now heres an idea for you - but as i said its WORK.
you could try the demo of what i use. powertracks(pgmusic.com). but dont buy it. (just see if the demo does what you want.) and record the output of your kmart drum machine (into line in of sound card) and record its patterns
as an audio track THEN note the precise time of each "hit" ,
then on another track paste a high quality sample at that precise time.
once you have one bar good just copy and paste XX times.
if the kmart special has finger pads then while drum track is playing
using your fingers then record a "fills track" and as before note times of hits and replace with real samples.
alternatively powertracks has a quickie midi drum track feature.
(NO FILLS FEATURE though ).
you choose a song style eg.rock, blues, whatever and it creates a midi drum track. but the problem is the internal pc synth drum sounds on your pc wont be good. they sound cheesy. so most people hook up an external midi high quality sound module. also for fills you would need to create these manually.
you might also ask of any of the midi experts on the user forum at pg how they do fills. they might have other solutions i dont know about.

in summary - no perfect solution rokket that ive found unless you get a drummer. fills are a pain !!
 
Rokket said:
Give me a break and stop busting my ass for trying to get some help from a pro, or semi-pro, or whoever. I know how to do what I want to do, but I was looking to see if maybe there was a quicker way to get it done and not stifle my creativity. If you can help me, help me. The sarcasm isn't helping.
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Nowhere is it stated that the drum machine cannot perform rolls. Sorry but I can't read minds.

You Navy boys don't get paid that little, especially if you are near retirement. I should know, I was in the Navy 1990-1995. You should be able to afford a R8 drum machine... 200 bucks on the used market and very viable instrument even today. If you can't afford that I'm not quite certain why you think you can afford home recording as a hobby.

I dunno.

When I was in the Navy I had ample money for home recording stuff, but I was in my early 20's and single. Of course, things were radically pricier back then for the performance you got. A 99 dollar program nowadays has 1000 times the power of my 3-4k setup I had then.

Most of my advice now to do it on the cheap would be software related, but that may not be the best answer because it sounds like computers and you don't get along.

First thing I'd do before doing music is upping those computers skills then. If you can't use a computer you can't do home recording cheaply or well.

Just my two cents.
 
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You will find much better drum sounds than the R8 is a number of keyboards and with a simple sequencer like Cubase you can be king of drummers.

Yes, I do have a R8, and an Alesis D4, and a number of keyboards.

And yes, I'm a drummer who can play 3/4 on cymbals at the same time as 4/4 with my other hand on toms and snare.

My best drum samples are the standard sounds of the old Ensoniq TS12, you even can find the 808 sounds there.

Think like a drummer and you'll get great results.
 
For Cloneboy and Manning

Cloneboy, perhaps I should explain myself. I am retiring, and because of that, most of my finances are going toward moving my family back to the states and buying a home, settling in, you get the picture. I made a deal with my wife not to spend money on my recording until we are financially set. That is why I have the cheap drum machines and what-not. I was given them. There are excellent sounds on my keyboard, and I will probably default to cut and paste with my drums to get the fills. I am not lazy, but the time that I can devote compared to when the muze hits me are slim. My wife works and I have a 3-year-old daughter to watch when she is at work. I will eventually upgrade. I am not the most computer savvy person, but I am getting better at it each day. My pc isn't the greatest for going straight in for recording, and my soundcard is shit, so I use my mr8, then transfer the files to pc and mix them in Sony Vegas (another gift). In all, I was just looking for a better way to kill the cat. Thank you for your honesty, and I appreciate your opinions.
Manning, I will give your suggestions a try, and I will let you know how things turn out. Thanks again for coming through for me.
My rant is over. Good day to you all
 
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rokket. i came across something interesting yesterday bearing in mind you are doing video stuff for your family. at hitsquad.com in the music software section under whats new were a couple of new video software products with demoes available. now i dont know if you'll find them userfull as i dont know in detail what your trying to do, but you might want to check them out.
 
manning1 said:
rokket. i came across something interesting yesterday bearing in mind you are doing video stuff for your family. at hitsquad.com in the music software section under whats new were a couple of new video software products with demoes available. now i dont know if you'll find them userfull as i dont know in detail what your trying to do, but you might want to check them out.
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I'll take a look. I think I solved my drum problem. Remember that I said in on of these threads that I use my tascam 4 track to record the drums and guitars so that I can lower the faders when I want to do fills? That was the reason the drums sounded so pathetic. I couldn't adjust them without adjusting the guitar with them. I recorded the drums separately yesterday working on a new song, and WHAM! They came out sounding great. I am going to try cut and paste with the fills. The Yamaha DD-55 has 7 pads and a pair of sticks, so I can manually do the fills over the drums on the stereo track of my mr8, and cut and paste them into the original drum track when I am ready. Thanks again for the tip. I will see what is on hitsquad and if it's better than what I already have.
L8r,
Rokket
 
the r-8 was a great machine and probably still rocks for some but those sounds are kinda done and overdone for me. it had a couple snare sounds in it worth while and cool vintage sounds cards but thats about it. there are way better options today. if you start programming on your own with a drum machine or sequencer its not all that easy but if you learn how to use the quantize feature it can at least get you in the ball park.
 
Han said:
And yes, I'm a drummer who can play 3/4 on cymbals at the same time as 4/4 with my other hand on toms and snare.

.
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I'd like to hear that.got a short mp3 clip of it?reason I ask is that is one of the exercises for salsa palying.it would be good if I could hear it hehe
 
Not there yet...

gemsbok said:
the r-8 was a great machine and probably still rocks for some but those sounds are kinda done and overdone for me. it had a couple snare sounds in it worth while and cool vintage sounds cards but thats about it. there are way better options today. if you start programming on your own with a drum machine or sequencer its not all that easy but if you learn how to use the quantize feature it can at least get you in the ball park.
Click to expand...

I have a Yamaha DD-55, which is that cute little 7-pad machine that comes with drum sticks, and a couple pedals for the kick and hi-hat. It has decent sounding pads and about 100 voices you can assign to them, but the pre-programmed "songs" are 2 measure loops that are not programmable. You can "record" fills, but it means pushing a button, doing the fill, and then pushing the button again. Can throw off your timing. My other option is to play it like a drum set, but my chops on drums are lacking, and everytime I do a fill playing manually, I come back on the back beat and throw the timing off. I don't have access to a drummer, so I am stuck with the preprogrammed drum tracks. Life can be a cruel bitch when she wants to be. I took some of Mannings advice. I tried out that program, but I am not sure if I like it. I also recorded a second set of tracks with the fills, and I am going to cut and paste and see how that works. The other option I have is a keyboard that has amazing drum sounds when you record it, and throw on some compression and eq. I have a whole new world open to me now that I got off my ass and looked at my options ( ;) ). Thanks again for all your help. In the end I found an option that worked for me on my own, after asking a question I probably knew the answer to. The patience you all show with me is much appreciated.
 
I tried it out, and I am happy now. I recorded the keyboard drums with great results. The drum sounds don't sound that good coming out of the built-in speakers on the keyboard, but they sure sounded great when I recorded them through the mr8, and even better when I ran them through my pc and used Sony Vegas.... I recorded a second stereo track of fills using the dd-55, and cut and pasted them into the original track. I am very pleased with the results. Thank you Cloneboy, for stirring up just enough shit to get me off my ass and look at what I have before running in here crying!
 
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