Song Volume Question - Chorus/Verse

J

JonPaulP

New member
I know it's standard to add more instruments in the chorus to contrast it with the verses, but what do you do when the instruments in the chorus overpower the vocals? Do you turn up the chorus vocals?

Also, are you suppose to make the volume of the verses and choruses equal even if the chorus has more instruments?
 
JonPaulP said:
I know it's standard to add more instruments in the chorus to contrast it with the verses, but what do you do when the instruments in the chorus overpower the vocals? Do you turn up the chorus vocals?

Also, are you suppose to make the volume of the verses and choruses equal even if the chorus has more instruments?
Click to expand...


You could turn up the vocal, or you could eq, pan, level the instruments so they don't overpower the vocal. Also I don't think there is any standard as to how many instruments should be in a chorus as opposed to a verse and infact there are plenty of songs that don't even have a chorus at all.
Youe not supposed to do anything except what works for the song. If the song calls for a loud chorus make it loud if it calls for a soft chorus do that. The material should tell you what it needs to sound good. If it doesn't it probably isn't good material in the first place
 
:eek::DYo JP:

I'm thinking it's all in the balance and use of gear and mix.

Not too long ago someone gave me a CD. I knew the gal vocalist and I have recorded her several times. She has a great voice and I like to try to make vocalists clear as possible. When I played the CD from a local home studio, I could not hear almost nada--no clarity when she sang. Kind of like singing a loud band via a crystal set for a mic. Amazing to produce this type when nobody can hear the words--I'd guess about 70 percent garbled.

In short, when I try to record you use balance on the music and clarity for the vocal--and blasting loud isn't quite the target.

A tip you might try is to use a vocal with NO reverb to record the talent. Then, mix in reverb for vocals when needed. Again, using decent gear will help you do some cool stuff. It takes time. Today I did one song and took about 22 takes for one track. It takes time to make the coffee percolate. Somewhere I just heard an old song.

Cheers,
Green Hornet
 
JonPaulP said:
I know it's standard to add more instruments in the chorus to contrast it with the verses, but what do you do when the instruments in the chorus overpower the vocals? Do you turn up the chorus vocals?

Also, are you suppose to make the volume of the verses and choruses equal even if the chorus has more instruments?
Click to expand...

Choruses are typically more dramatic than verses. This is done a number of ways: adding more instruments, playing louder and so on.

If you are playing live, there's a natural dynamic involved: the singer will sing more strongly to adjust to the change.

You have to recreate this in a studio, which you would do by . . . singing more strongly.

However, if you are already tracking quite high, this may leave you nowhere to go. Also, if you are using a lot of compression, the natural dynamics you introduced may be negated by the compression.

Let the backing volume increase be as natural as possible, and let your singing be as natural as possible, and with luck, they will fit together nicely.

Howeve, on occasions when I haven't been diligent with this myself, I am quite happy to run the vocals louder than normal in the verses so that they don't disappear in the chorus.
 
a great new tool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcEdZNE6XXQ&feature=related
Waves plug in new called center Wave for mastering it is amazing I gave the YouTube link to see what it is and what id does, this plug-in has solved many problems in a mix.
Naturally a good mix to start with is essential, you have to ride the faders.Also
proper compression settings help on vox as you know a compressor makes quiet passages louder and louder parts set at a threshold. I use a limiter more than a compressor as It does not change the audio as a compressor does.
The new plug -in is a god sent and just watch and see why.All the trix in the book should be used in the first mix as you can not do a thing if the vox is distorted and all you can do is do another take.If compression used start with soft knee around 2:1 and start from there.Also as the other post said record the vocals with out effects, but not 100% unprocessed use a Behringer Ultra voice pro VX2000 they are cheap got mine for 40.00 average is under 100.00 used. It has a compressor, tube emulator than a expander to correct the lack of luster from the compressor, a EQ section,a nice pro level pre-amp first in the chain,and a de-esser, that helps with sibilance the dreaded S's.With these tools all in one you can get specific on the perfect vox recording with out a Eff ex processor.Go out and get one, cheap, 5 star rated and if you have the cash get the wave plug in they are not cheap. but wow, it has helped me improve a mix on vox 100%
 
Bristol Posse said:
Also I don't think there is any standard as to how many instruments should be in a chorus as opposed to a verse and infact there are plenty of songs that don't even have a chorus at all.
Youe not supposed to do anything except what works for the song. If the song calls for a loud chorus make it loud if it calls for a soft chorus do that. The material should tell you what it needs to sound good. If it doesn't it probably isn't good material in the first place
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Exactly. Use that advice not only in recording but in songwriting and everything musically oriented that you do. I remember starting out and making musical decisions based on if "Pearl Jam" or if "Radiohead" would do that in one of their songs.... that is essentially a poison to creativity. However if you hear something you like in a song, it can't hurt to investigate it to give you a starting point. <p>
As far as your refrains that do you do wish to be louder/bolder... instead of raising the volume of the original track, I would start out by doubling the vocals and/or adding some harmonies and pan them left/right.
 
JonPaulP said:
I know it's standard to add more instruments in the chorus to contrast it with the verses, but what do you do when the instruments in the chorus overpower the vocals? Do you turn up the chorus vocals?

Also, are you suppose to make the volume of the verses and choruses equal even if the chorus has more instruments?
Click to expand...

First of all, I personally agree 100% with everybody that has said there is no "supposed to" in mixing your tunes. Go for what sounds cool, conventions be damned.

Still, the above statement doesn't mean that tried-and-true tricks are necessarily a bad thing.

If you have a song where the chorus instruments are "kicking in" and burying the vocals, then you could simply automate your vocal level upwards for the chorus sections. You may need to move the other parts down a bit so that you have enough headroom to do this (i.e. if the verse vox are already maxed, then it won't work).

Personally though, if I'm recording a tune that has clear breaks in the louder/softer parts, I prefer to avoid using automation and just record entirely separate tracks--in your case, this would mean recording your verse vocals on one track, and chorus vocals on a separate track. This way, you can set the levels of the two individually and off you go.

Also, like somebody already mentioned, you can try double-tracking (recording 2 takes of the exact same thing and using them together). You'll find that this really helps cut through the loud backing instruments. If you go with a single vocal track (panned center) for a quiet verse, and then switch to a double-tracked vocal (panned left and right) for the chorus it makes for a nice effect in some cases. It won't sound good in all situations but it's something to try. If the chorus instrumentation is loud enough the double-tracking effect can be almost transparent to the casual listener.
 
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