Looking for particular sound

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Well, it's my first post. Hopefully one of many. I've been browsing these forums for awhile and appreciate all the time and effort the users here give to those seeking help...so I thought I'd post a question of my own.

There's a particular sound I'm looking to get in my mixes. I would say it most closely resembles a blend of 30 Secs to Mars/Bush. Neither are my favorite group, but the rich guitar sounds are what I'm looking for. If you want more specific examples, then "From Yesterday" and "Sound of Winter" would do.

The more detail provided, the better. For example, in addition to EQ practices and specific compression settings, I would be interested to hear thoughts of panning hard right and left via doubling the track and slightly modifying the EQ on each (these songs have such width to them; really surrounds the listener).

Gear: Studio One Pro, Ampire amp simulator. Guitar plugged directly into a PreSonus interface. EZDrummer 2.

I understand these bands are using high-end equipment, but let's pretend they were trying to reproduce their sound using the equipment I had. What would they do? - beside give up and go to a pro studio ;)

If you are familiar w/ Ampire, please suggest specific combos (American Drive through a British 4x12, or whatnot) and mic distances.

Please let me know if I forgot any vital information or if I can clear anything up. I'm looking forward to hearing suggestions. thanks!
 
andrushkiwt said:
The more detail provided, the better. For example, in addition to EQ practices and specific compression settings, I would be interested to hear thoughts of panning hard right and left via doubling the track and slightly modifying the EQ on each (these songs have such width to them; really surrounds the listener).
Click to expand...

Copying a track will never quite give you what you're looking for. You need to record two separate performances played in near perfect sync.
 
Understood. Would you care to suggest how you would mix the two separate instances? One more fuzzy than the other/slightly contrasting eq/panned extreme or somewhere around 75, etc...

thanks for the quick reply
 
Start with them panned hard. I wouldn't make them too different in tone, just a little. Maybe move the mic a little for the double, or change the tone slightly on the instrument or on the amp. It's the inevitable small differences in playing it twice that do the trick.
 
Minor changes between the two, panned hard. I'll try it.

If there was to be a rhythmic lead, not so much a solo, but more like octaves playing over the basic chord progression, are those traditionally placed dead center or shifted to a side more? I don't want to overload a side, but I want to reserve the C for bass, most drums, and most vocals. I'm guessing that panning rhythms hard with the aforementioned things centered will leave room around 50 on each side for things like octaves and other brief leads...?
 
What I would benefit from is some type of video that breaks-down popular songs in the alternative rock genre in terms of mixing. Taking something like "Machinehead" by Bush (everyone knows this song) and an in depth look at how things are panned, mic placement, compression settings, and EQ. Again, 30 Seconds to Mars is a good example of the ambiance, depth, and tone I'm trying to create.

Any suggestions on vids anyone?
 
andrushkiwt said:
Minor changes between the two, panned hard. I'll try it.

If there was to be a rhythmic lead, not so much a solo, but more like octaves playing over the basic chord progression, are those traditionally placed dead center or shifted to a side more? I don't want to overload a side, but I want to reserve the C for bass, most drums, and most vocals. I'm guessing that panning rhythms hard with the aforementioned things centered will leave room around 50 on each side for things like octaves and other brief leads...?
Click to expand...

I don't rely on stereo spread to separate things. It's better if the arrangement takes care of that, with help from level and eq settings. If the balance doesn't hold up with everything centered then there's room for improvement in arrangement, levels or eq.

But, yeah, with kick/snare/bass/vocal centered and guitars out wide there may be an appropriate spot about halfway between center and side.
 
I'd recommend you just experiment - you've got the tools, computer mixing is non-destructive, just try stuff. WHy copy someone else's sound, go for your own.
 
mjbphotos said:
I'd recommend you just experiment - you've got the tools, computer mixing is non-destructive, just try stuff. WHy copy someone else's sound, go for your own.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying. There isn't anything wrong with learning the way others do things. They have a rich sound to their guitars and it's similar to the way I've always imagined getting my own mixes to sound. There will definitely be an individual element to the music and tone, and a wide-spanning sound with rich clarity certainly doesn't encompass "copying". I am not asking for exact pedals, guitar model, and everything else needed to replicate what someone is doing...rather, some techniques used to make the sound span the ears widely and come through rich, clear, and precise. There isn't anything wrong with asking how something came to be...isn't that what these forums are for? Once I establish a solid blueprint, I can mold it to my likeability. First and foremost, I'm a musician...not an engineer. Countless well-known bands have admitted to seeking out particular sounds for their albums. Kurt C. once said he recorded with Albini because he loved the Pixies sound on Surfer Rosa and desired an album of similar ambiance and rawness. Turns out "In Utero" is my favorite album by them. Thanks to: knowing what it is you're looking for and figuring out how to get it.
 
I've been trying a new (to me) technique where you up the EQ on one side in two spots, say 450 and 5K and lower in two close freqs, say 600 and 6K by about 3dB, then do the opposite on the other side. You need to sweep with your parametric wide open to find the "sweet" spots on the tracks and then pick four really juicy sweet spots to work with. It actually increases separation and really fattens the sound.
 
Great suggestion. I'll give this a try as well. Are you sweeping the master or the individual tracks? I use some distorted vocals that occasionally struggle with the distorted guitars.
 
Sweep tracks. Solo the track, make the Q as small as you can get it. Turn the gain up as far as it will go, and sweep the frequency back and forth until you hear something :D. Then cut your boost down to around 3dB. (This is not necessarily for you, but there are lots of beginners out there who may not understand "sweep".)
AFA bringing your vocals to the forefront: Try a gentle (<3dB) bandpass boost somewhere from 6k-10k. Reduces some of the harshness from the harmonics and brings the clarity back into the vocal without killing the distorted sound. Also, make sure you're not over distorting. Try backing off the distortion and see if the clarity comes out again without losing the bite (in full mix).
 
just an update: I tried extreme panning two performances of the rhythm G's in the chorus, slightly contrasting EQ's, while the lead octaves on G are at about 50 pan on each side. Bass, kick, snare, centered. Sounds amazing when the chorus kicks in. This is getting very close to what I'm looking for. Thanks for all the input. Only minor problem was that the intro G (intro is guitar and vocal only) sounds weak and thin when panned hard left, obviously. I had to copy and paste that rhythm intro onto an additional track that is closer to 33 L with vocal centered. i ended up making a second track of that G performance and placing it at around 20 R w/ a contrasting EQ (this is the intro still). that seems to work better for that type of situation. Think something like Incubus' "Warning", where the guitar and vocals kick off the song, but the chorus is full and wide. I'm only about 7 months into "engineering" my own sound, and I'm currently working on balancing and panning, as you can see. :) next up, sidechain compression for enhancing vocals during busy sections.
 
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