Song that will be a collaboration

studioviols

New member
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3196&alid=-1

'The Park'

The objective of this thread, is to help me mix this so that I can then burn the project to disk and send it to Sluice in the mail. Sluice is gonna sing this.

I'm using Cakewalk SONAR and Sluice has already requested I bounce all the liveSynth Pro tracks to audio tracks for him so he won't have to re-configure the project with his own samples and stuff ... he doesn't even use LiveSynth.

So I want hints on how to mix this, so Sluice can then lay his tracks.

Any general comments about any of the song elements are also welcome. This is not a performance mix, it's a draft of sorts.

Again, the objective is to make the mix so that Sluice can have the best shot at singing the lead.

Also, I need guitar work on this tune. Sluice will probably do the lead guitar, but all I'm really counting on is for him to do the vocal.
 
Based solely on the information you are requesting, I don't hear anything objectionable in the mix and composition that would foul up doing a vocal in place of the one you eloquently performed.

The orchestral kettle drums were probably a little hot in the mix and the stings could have been a touch louder to carry the melody but, that's only my humble opinion.

I detected a Tom Leerer bent on this tune in its demeanour. Was he a favourite and inspiration of yours?

I like it! :)
 
The Ghost of FM : Yes, I'm definitely going to have to bring up the strings, and I guess the kettles would knock the cans off his head while he was tracking !

He will have some control over each individual instrument's mix, so he will be able to alter those volumes. But the next mix is going to be a practice mix to send to him without the vocal, so I'm weighing these issues in a couple different ways ...

The song was inspired by this discussion thread at Patrice Pike's website, it's in the activism section of her website here :

http://www.patricepike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80

My recent exposure to Trish Murphy and Sara Hickman out of Austin also colored the vocal performance and of course the Dr. Seuss Media we all love factors in also.

And I have been to Mabel Park, and have swum in Barton Creek Springs and I love both dearly, seems things have gotten worse since my last visit to Austin in 1999.

I think close exposure to Sluice's voice in his song 'Taken' has had an effect on the writing of the vocal melody for this song also ...

Thanks for the 'eloquence', it seems to be the only damn way I can really sing ! LOL ! What I'd give to be able to pull off a melodic punk tune or two eh ?

As to the musician you cite, I'll check them out, I'm always looking for that kind of direction and knowledge from fellow board members as I have been serious about rock, pop, and the alternative 'genre of the masses' since only 1991.

While 15 and 14 respectively, my brother was filling his mouth with butane and blowing 'Gene Simmons Kisses', while I fiddled motzart in the next room :D
 
The 'scape is all the way back over the horizon man. Love it......there`s some 1800's romantic opera flavor in there too.
:cool:

You can project as eery and suspenceful as Norman Bates my friend.. :eek:
 
LedMech : WTF ?

Toki987 : I listened to YOUR opera, your collab with dafduc, and the women singing ... the babes ... oh yeah ! but I gotta find the time to go over that one again ...

Thanks for the listen. Norman Bates huh ROFL ! cool
 
I`m remixing for levels now on that tune. I was pressed for time. I hope you enjoy it.

I do really like your composition, I forgot to say.... (as I was absorbing the texture of the soundscape of the tune) that you could bring the levels up slightly more on the strings and piano, imho. :)
 
Woooaahh scary!

Hey what a great track! very different, very imaginative. Yeah, quite operatic as someone said.


Agree about the levels of strings and piano.

I reckon it calls out for some nice twiddly/folky solo violin bits. Just my opinion.

I'm on my 4th listen!

Nice work.
 
That ain't opera! That's BROADWAY! I can hardly wait to hear this with the "Sluice" spin. This is gonna kick serious ass!!
Nice orchestration - tymps kicked my ass but I needed that 'cause I have a wicked hangover. I wasn't kidding about the Broadway comment - this is a show number!! Very coool! And very nice work. Milan
 
cool Broadway feel.. very cool piece! can't wait to hear my man on this..

the first thing I thought of was the Muppet's for some reason.. I pictured Kermit singing this..

the vocals sound like they are laid on top of the music as opposed to being part of it.. they are so on top of the music that it's hard to offer suggestions about anything else.. that first laugh around 45 seconds was so loud it was ridiculous..

the whole piano part around 2:10 sounds VERY midi to me.. maybe a more natural sounding piano..

I would suggest raising the strings so you can actually hear them.. try to make the vocals sit with the song as opposed to on top..

this will be extraordinary when it's done!
 
B.SABBATH said:
cool Broadway feel..

ha, i agree w/ that........some villian character's song..........

the vocal is sufficient for a trace vocal, but that's about it......it's really pitchy, but will give Sluice a good enough trace for the main melody...........

some crazy electric leads could give this one some nice edge
 
studioviols said:

A violinist who spells Mozart wrong? Go to your room:D

Cool song, will sound great when it is done, a Sweeney Todd thingee is going on.

Suggestions:

Pat, get out your theory books from College and brush up a bit on voicing. Since this is standard music, you have a lot of voicing problems that should be worked out, or else your old music theory prof will have a stroke. Parallel 5ths are a no-no, as you know.:p

Also, the inversions of a lot of chords are wrong. The chords you picked are fine, but the inversions are not "Broadway" enough. Quite often, you use the third of the chord as the bass, when it should actually be the tonic as the bass.

I will give you an example of Chordal structure:

When you say " And the park it is lying in wait", you are in Cminor the whole time. When you hit "lying", the Broadway thing to do would be to switch to a dominant Chord (G major), and then go back to tonic when you say "wait".

Another faux pas; "Roots in jagged .... TIRES". When you hit the word tires, the vocal sings a B. You really should have the Bass line on the tonic, which is G. You inverted it differently, and you have a B in the melody and a B in the Bass line. That doesnt make a lot of sense musically.

IMHO, you need to make more of a relationship between tonic and dominant. The I and V chords are crucial to this type of music.

The tune is great, just change the voicing and you will have a Broadway sound.
 
studioviols: I like the feel of the tune. Why don't you leave your vocals. They have a very unique sound. I agree with the show tune people. You also brought back memories of Barton Springs. I swam there regulary for 12 years, and my dog swam at the spill-off her entire life. After about 2 hours in the water (68 degrees) I could ride my bike home (4 miles) without sweating. Walter
 
Cool tune!

I could definitly hear this breaking out into a Sluice rocker,this would be a good way to go for the intro,and outro mabey.

Everything sounds good from here,mabey just the string levels like the others mentioned.

Interesting writing,I like it.

Pete
 
VERSE 1: 00:00
| Cm | Bb | Ab | Fm - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G |

I'm not going to do a complete chart, but what's above will get you started, there's not a lot going on differently later, some of this is used as foundation for JazzExpansion ... somewhat.

If you aren't really interested in reading about the musical theory of this song, although I've tried to write it in an entertaining manner, you might want to skip this ;-)

I may have had more fun writing it, than you will reading it.

COMPOSITIONAL HISTORY :

The lyrics and melody came first, (strong and quick), they were finished before I began composing the accompanying parts. My goal as I began was to fit and shape music under, around and on top of the melody and the literary structure, the lyric of song, and to preserve that melody and lyric as much as possible. A secondary goal was to be progromatic and describe what we may see and what might be happening in the song with sounds that may assist in drawing those pictures and movements. The third goal was to write something that I could use real violin, viola and cello within after prototyping that ensemble in MIDI.

I quickly realized that I wanted either dobro or sluice to sing this, and I might just love to have dobro sing the choruses or assist there if he has the time. The evil grime that Sluice can produce handily, contrasted with Dobro's quaint innocence in the choruses would be fantastic. But Sluice get's first swing at the whole thing. If any person has a child whose voice has not changed who would offer a willing collaboration for this piece, that would be excellent. A child's voice in the choruses would be very appropriate if only on the last words of the chorus phrases, (flying, dying, crying).

This piece was written for the most part with the pencil tool, in SONAR, in staff view. I started by constructing a bass line with cello. Everything is strongly fashioned for and subordinate to, support for the melody and lyric. Then I sprinkled in a bit of violin highlight, fill and color, to support some lyrical images and add an interval that seemed appropriate to develop some harmonic landscape ... then I added the real meat of any piece of music ... the violas of course, the motzart violas ;-) to bind the cello and violin closer and support the vocal melody more strongly, and then give the three instruments some continuity to funtion as an ensemble.

The piano came next and is used mostly as a percussive pitched device to define phrasing and strengthen cadence points, and to strengthen the movement of the bass line. The piano served to fill nicely in the chorus, and for lack of anything better in MIDI, I used it as the solo voice in the break. Then the organ was added mostly for effect. The tympanny and orchestral cymbal were added for punctuation. I finally added the superb Turtle Drum soundfont Ethan Winer made in his studio, (with a real African Turtle Drum), of which Ethan has so graciously given me use. I then added some conga and bongo as these instruments are the favorites of musicians who frequent the Austin Parks in large and exciting 'drum circles'.

I rarely payed any attention to the actual names of the notes I was writing and was constantly wary of any theoretical approach, I honestly did not want to identify any 'concrete theoretical structures' ... I really was just counting on any theory in the old brainpan to guide and influence the structure of what was happening. I wanted to be able to enjoy composing in an improvisational 'by ear' approach with this song, as might be the habit of many on this bbs. I guess at some points when I seemed to be 'stuck' I may have actually honored the recognition of 'note names' on the staff in the mind's eye and tumbled them about a bit to polish my reflection on where where I might go from 'there', but it was all very contexutual within just a few measures prior and a few measures ahead ... just to 'get it written' so to speak. I am probably so firmly bound in the major-minor system that subconciously every note is a slave to that form so I didn't worry to much about 'beginnings and endings', perhaps hoping the impressionist would demand more of this. Where that impressionist may be I don't know, let's see if we can find one.

I guess it's appropriate that DavidK at this point has given me the impetus to now make a theoretical analysis of my own work, and I think it high time, yes indeed ! We shall hang it from the yard arm and keelhaul it ... AAAaarrrr avast there yee theory masons !

So I guess I am going to review myself. Pedullist is probably feeling a stroke coming on at this point. If you think my other posts are long ... well, you should probably get several meals together in front of your computer, a carton of smokes, gallon or so of your favorite beverage ... and dress comfortably :D .

As this was done at an improvisational level, or as close as you can get in 'step time' writing, it should now benefit greatly from a theoretical thrashing. I shall now place a theoretical jack 'neath my nose' and lift it high above my own work and sniff about.

Yes, I do want to give the listener some dominant relationship to hold on to, and I simply do that with the strong and completely exposed movement of a perfect 4th in the cello in the beginning. We'll all probably agree this movement is from G, the dominant of C, and ascends to the tonic. And I am strongly indicating that we will be in C. And so we jump up on the dominant bandwagon ears keen for the next assuring clues, and we will get them.

I then clearly present a naturally descending Cminor scale in the bass. The bass line then makes use of a iv-V movement to indicate cadence, I digress to explain. Yes, in my mind I clearly hear the Fm and then GM chords voiced here as the Ab in the melody insists. I do wish for the listener to be aware of root movement by a major second here, no matter what the sonority. I want to introduce a dimDm7 chord later so for now, what may seem an iv, (Fm sonority), can be modified later.

So before I go too far and write myself out of any theoretical corners I may wish to remain sitting pensively within, I will say the key signature is three flats and that along with other information strongly indicates a posture in Cm, especially as the only recurrent use of any accidental is the use of Bb altered to Bnat to function as leading tone for Cm and we see that later.

However, I will not be satisfied to simply allow the listener an easy dominant relationship, the whole song is about 'apathy' by the City Leaders or perhaps even the Park attendees themselves, denial figures in here also ... so I cannot allow an easy apathy in the harmonic structure ... no, no, no ... we must have GREEN eggs and ham, (cymbal crash here).We must also partially deny that we are using the dominance between C and G as the 'center' of our harmonic structure.

The second phrase of the first verse begins with Cm, and the progression repeats that of the first phrase until we reach measure 8, there are two chords there which form a cadence. There is a diminished minor triad with the root D and a minor 7th atop that structure, (d-f-ab-c), followed by a clearly voiced G major chord. The preceeding iv-V cadence, the sonority of Fm, and the ever present urge to hear the tonic helps the listener build the dimDm7 which is what I want to hear at this point. I may be able to make this more clear.

There is more than one way to explain this. The dimDm7 triad does occur naturally in Cm, and we could be embarking on a perverted ii-V-i, a broadway perversion of Jazz ... perhaps a cadence certainly ... or ... is 'The Park' lying in wait ? ... are the 'ROOTS' entwined in rotten tirezzzzz.

This dimDm7 chord is also the leading tone chord and a perfectly good vii-7 chord for Cm's parent, Eb. Am I creating some tension at the cadence for the second phrase of the first verse ? Is there an allusion to a pivot chord, the vii/vii ? I'll need related dominance to prove that. So ... can I draw a reference or relationship to an Ab major chord with this structure, will it float, or is it poison ? Is there room here for V/V or vii/vii , did I skip class that day ? Oh god ... maybe I was stoned and mistakenly DID go to class ...

The naturally occuring dimDm7 chord can also loosely have dominant relationship ... no, no ... it never does that ... it's always a vii7/vii7 which implies we may wish to voice a V/V relationship, and I do. Yes I know that's stretching it all, but let's see if I can support that later shall we ? Perhaps I'll need a sharp blade of jaded grass to do some surgery with ... hmmmm. Probably just need Sluice's fine character vocal to make this more clear.

I begin to end the second phrase with strong dominance in the sonority of the G major chord as the 8th bar ends, and return to the tonic sonorities of Cm in the next phrase, the third phrase of the first verse. The progression for the third phrase of the verse is the same as the second phrase and I strengthen the case for a dimDm7 in measure 12. In measure 12 we can hear the D strong in the bass, the F in the violins, and the Ab in the vocal ... or maybe you can't because this mix kinda sucks ...

The fourth phrase of the first verse is going to vary with some unexpected strength from the F in the bass of measure 15, (the third measure of the fourth phrase of verse 1). What is going on here ? Some movement towards a cadence is happening early here, a final cadence is being approached for this first verse, ahem. Am I pimping your subdominance ? Hell yeah I am ! While the sneeches swim around the dominant 7th, 'The Park' wants to fool you into a stronger iv - V - i cadence as presented at the end of the first phrase ... but it's perverted by the dim_ii_m7-V-i desire. And the word 'stars' occuring on the downbeat and the note is a 'D' and the bass note is a 'D' seems to support this ... so, where the hell are we going ? Well we are going to the chorus of ch-ourse sam, sam ... I am.

In the chorus the bees seem to be buzzing about a certain minor second sonority. The minor second formed by the celli between D and Eb. And these are two very important tones here. We've used the D to muddy up the security we feel we need sometimes early on and I'm going to continue to let it thrash around, and it is precisely the right tone to use amidst all this confusion to let you enjoy the AbM7 sonority I introduce here, and here is the V/V sonority I have been hinting about all along. The Eb is of course the tonic of Cm's parent key, and that Eb is also the dominant of any V/V that is going to occur. You are going to ignore the D here and what it might mean, all you will hear is the sonority of a minor second and you don't really care what is happening to produce it, you become desparate to hear the AbM7 sonority because it is so beautiful, and the lyric is looking positively depressing at this point. (Ab-C-Eb-G) ; The C is sustained by the violins from the previous Cm sonority. The Ab is in the vocal on the downbeat, 'fly', the violas support the Ab here an octave below the vocal. The contrabass gives us Ab early in the measure and then torments us by descending to the Major 7 our primary dominant. The piano fill walks distinctly through the outline of the AbM7 chord, and the organ, a new instrument is introduced with the Ab in the second half of the measure. Of course the Celli are voicing the dominan of the AbM7 sonority, Eb, and that's what all the buzz is about. The G, the 7th of the AbM7 serves as a resolution when the Cm sonority is voiced in the next measure, it's beauty once again becomes the beast.

As a child in Shreveport, I was an actor in a production of 'Beauty and the Beast' ... I was the younger brother, and I was gutted by the Beast ... I think it has affected me :D .

So on the lyric 'Daddy', the downbeat of a new phrase in this first Chorus, the cello's are giving us clear dominant sonority, a perfect 5th between C-G. The actual word Daddy occurs on the tone G and falls to the 7th of the G7 sonority. The organ pedals impatiently upon the low G tone, the piano in agreement with the note C, the Contrabass fully complying by pedaling on C. Whew, such relief.

As the trees begin dying, they do so gloriously. The C the violins have been holding is now the 13th of a quite painful Gm13, (G-Bb-D-F-Ab-C). The trees begin 'dying' on the 9th, and subcome fully on the dominant of the previously mentioned sonority. Celli hold the 5th and 3rd, contrabass the 3rd, piano stabs out the G and continues to fill with other notes in this sonority and the evil organ pedals dominantly on yes ... you guessed it, the note D. But the shows not over folks. Something evil springs from all this and the birds are ... crying.

In measure 23, as we begin singing the third line of the chorus we 'DO' return to strong dominance with the note G in almost every voice. The tones F and Ab 'CRY' out to us for a cadence, and we get that strongly at the end of the chorus as the Park is indeed lying in wait ... for what though ?

Ah, the evil Sluice arises from the ashes of the Gm13 to sing the second verse ... and perhaps there should be some of those electric guitar fills occuring here as Participant mentions, look closely at the melody there.

In the first verse, the sneeches 'naturally B playing with their stars on thars', so what is it with the rotten 'TIRES' and this big bodacious B natural. Is something major about to occur ? Are we being 'led' somewhere ? Or is our ear only being dominated for further trickery ? Perhaps that is up to the Sluicing of this song, eh ? We certainly can clearly 'C' the green blades of jaded grass are growing in the tonic sonority, and the 'poison jagged daggered spires' reach up to some minor subdominance again in the sonority of Fm, and we are impaled by the piano's B natural that demands a return to yes ... tonic ... C. Because we need to relax, and float about with Plato, so I whack you with a Cymbal to clear your ears out and drive home that tonic sonority.

Summertime in Fm is quite nice ... ahhhhh ... perhaps Erland is somewhere about with a refill for my hemlock wine ...

Then the dominant theme returns as you and Plato are drinking poison together ... sucker !

The hemlocks are growing amongst that 'D'-amn mud we were groaning about. The violins warning with the French 6th ... Ab dipping on to G, only hinting at the beauty of the previous AbM7 sonority and it's relative beauty.

The beast that has been slowly stalking ascends it's final few steps on piano keys, leaping up to that all powerful B natural and settling in on C once again. Reaching not just a dominant postition of G'ness ... in all it's craftiness ... but arriving centerstage in full blown C, the tympanny, the cymbals all driving it home, all voices sounding the tone C as the beast's huge poison feet slam wetly to the wooden slats of the stage !

Has the question been answered ... Has 'The Park' become the beast ?

Just before this, on the word 'Joys', almost all voices are sounding the tone Eb, and that strong a sonority with Eb has not been used thus far. And we continue quickly to 'Totally Defile' with a strong F-G sonority ...

And what are the repercussions of all this ? The seem to be Eb, I want to get out of all this funk and depression, a nice Eb MAJOR chord would be nice about now, and we want it. But maybe I'll throw you back in 'D' 'F'ing hemlock patch. And then maybe we really don't know what we are 'drumming' up. Minor ... Major ? Bnat, Bb ??? We certainly are declining ... and I think 'The Beast' is winning ...

The second chorus is much the same as the first, and we are brought back into an awareness of how we got into this big mess in the first place ...

Tune in next week kids to the next installment of Theoretical Beast, same station, new mix, but that's just a theory :D
 
Last edited:
studioviols said:
VERSE 1: 00:00
| Cm | Bb | Ab | Fm - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G | Cm | Bb | Ab | dimDm7 - G |

I'm not going to do a complete chart, but what's above will get you started, there's not a lot going on differently later, some of this is used as foundation for JazzExpansion ... somewhat.

If you aren't really interested in reading about the musical theory of this song, although I've tried to write it in an entertaining manner, you might want to skip this ;-)

I may have had more fun writing it, than you will reading it.

COMPOSITIONAL HISTORY :

The lyrics and melody came first, (strong and quick), they were finished before I began composing the accompanying parts. My goal as I began was to fit and shape music under, around and on top of the melody and the literary structure, the lyric of song, and to preserve that melody and lyric as much as possible. A secondary goal was to be progromatic and describe what we may see and what might be happening in the song with sounds that may assist in drawing those pictures and movements. The third goal was to write something that I could use real violin, viola and cello within after prototyping that ensemble in MIDI.

I quickly realized that I wanted either dobro or sluice to sing this, and I might just love to have dobro sing the choruses or assist there if he has the time. The evil grime that Sluice can produce handily, contrasted with Dobro's quaint innocence in the choruses would be fantastic. But Sluice get's first swing at the whole thing. If any person has a child whose voice has not changed who would offer a willing collaboration for this piece, that would be excellent. A child's voice in the choruses would be very appropriate if only on the last words of the chorus phrases, (flying, dying, crying).

This piece was written for the most part with the pencil tool, in SONAR, in staff view. I started by constructing a bass line with cello. Everything is strongly fashioned for and subordinate to, support for the melody and lyric. Then I sprinkled in a bit of violin highlight, fill and color, to support some lyrical images and add an interval that seemed appropriate to develop some harmonic landscape ... then I added the real meat of any piece of music ... the violas of course, the motzart violas ;-) to bind the cello and violin closer and support the vocal melody more strongly, and then give the three instruments some continuity to funtion as an ensemble.

The piano came next and is used mostly as a percussive pitched device to define phrasing and strengthen cadence points, and to strengthen the movement of the bass line. The piano served to fill nicely in the chorus, and for lack of anything better in MIDI, I used it as the solo voice in the break. Then the organ was added mostly for effect. The tympanny and orchestral cymbal were added for punctuation. I finally added the superb Turtle Drum soundfont Ethan Winer made in his studio, (with a real African Turtle Drum), of which Ethan has so graciously given me use. I then added some conga and bongo as these instruments are the favorites of musicians who frequent the Austin Parks in large and exciting 'drum circles'.

I rarely payed any attention to the actual names of the notes I was writing and was constantly wary of any theoretical approach, I honestly did not want to identify any 'concrete theoretical structures' ... I really was just counting on any theory in the old brainpan to guide and influence the structure of what was happening. I wanted to be able to enjoy composing in an improvisational 'by ear' approach with this song, as might be the habit of many on this bbs. I guess at some points when I seemed to be 'stuck' I may have actually honored the recognition of 'note names' on the staff in the mind's eye and tumbled them about a bit to polish my reflection on where where I might go from 'there', but it was all very contexutual within just a few measures prior and a few measures ahead ... just to 'get it written' so to speak. I am probably so firmly bound in the major-minor system that subconciously every note is a slave to that form so I didn't worry to much about 'beginnings and endings', perhaps hoping the impressionist would demand more of this. Where that impressionist may be I don't know, let's see if we can find one.

I guess it's appropriate that DavidK at this point has given me the impetus to now make a theoretical analysis of my own work, and I think it high time, yes indeed ! We shall hang it from the yard arm and keelhaul it ... AAAaarrrr avast there yee theory masons !

So I guess I am going to review myself. Pedullist is probably feeling a stroke coming on at this point. If you think my other posts are long ... well, you should probably get several meals together in front of your computer, a carton of smokes, gallon or so of your favorite beverage ... and dress comfortably :D .

As this was done at an improvisational level, or as close as you can get in 'step time' writing, it should now benefit greatly from a theoretical thrashing. I shall now place a theoretical jack 'neath my nose' and lift it high above my own work and sniff about.

Yes, I do want to give the listener some dominant relationship to hold on to, and I simply do that with the strong and completely exposed movement of a perfect 4th in the cello in the beginning. We'll all probably agree this movement is from G, the dominant of C, and ascends to the tonic. And I am strongly indicating that we will be in C. And so we jump up on the dominant bandwagon ears keen for the next assuring clues, and we will get them.

I then clearly present a naturally descending Cminor scale in the bass. The bass line then makes use of a iv-V movement to indicate cadence, I digress to explain. Yes, in my mind I clearly hear the Fm and then GM chords voiced here as the Ab in the melody insists. I do wish for the listener to be aware of root movement by a major second here, no matter what the sonority. I want to introduce a dimDm7 chord later so for now, what may seem an iv, (Fm sonority), can be modified later.

So before I go too far and write myself out of any theoretical corners I may wish to remain sitting pensively within, I will say the key signature is three flats and that along with other information strongly indicates a posture in Cm, especially as the only recurrent use of any accidental is the use of Bb altered to Bnat to function as leading tone for Cm and we see that later.

However, I will not be satisfied to simply allow the listener an easy dominant relationship, the whole song is about 'apathy' by the City Leaders or perhaps even the Park attendees themselves, denial figures in here also ... so I cannot allow an easy apathy in the harmonic structure ... no, no, no ... we must have GREEN eggs and ham, (cymbal crash here).We must also partially deny that we are using the dominance between C and G as the 'center' of our harmonic structure.

The second phrase of the first verse begins with Cm, and the progression repeats that of the first phrase until we reach measure 8, there are two chords there which form a cadence. There is a diminished minor triad with the root D and a minor 7th atop that structure, (d-f-ab-c), followed by a clearly voiced G major chord. The preceeding iv-V cadence, the sonority of Fm, and the ever present urge to hear the tonic helps the listener build the dimDm7 which is what I want to hear at this point. I may be able to make this more clear.

There is more than one way to explain this. The dimDm7 triad does occur naturally in Cm, and we could be embarking on a perverted ii-V-i, a broadway perversion of Jazz ... perhaps a cadence certainly ... or ... is 'The Park' lying in wait ? ... are the 'ROOTS' entwined in rotten tirezzzzz.

This dimDm7 chord is also the leading tone chord and a perfectly good vii-7 chord for Cm's parent, Eb. Am I creating some tension at the cadence for the second phrase of the first verse ? Is there an allusion to a pivot chord, the vii/vii ? I'll need related dominance to prove that. So ... can I draw a reference or relationship to an Ab major chord with this structure, will it float, or is it poison ? Is there room here for V/V or vii/vii , did I skip class that day ? Oh god ... maybe I was stoned and mistakenly DID go to class ...

The naturally occuring dimDm7 chord can also loosely have dominant relationship ... no, no ... it never does that ... it's always a vii7/vii7 which implies we may wish to voice a V/V relationship, and I do. Yes I know that's stretching it all, but let's see if I can support that later shall we ? Perhaps I'll need a sharp blade of jaded grass to do some surgery with ... hmmmm. Probably just need Sluice's fine character vocal to make this more clear.

I begin to end the second phrase with strong dominance in the sonority of the G major chord as the 8th bar ends, and return to the tonic sonorities of Cm in the next phrase, the third phrase of the first verse. The progression for the third phrase of the verse is the same as the second phrase and I strengthen the case for a dimDm7 in measure 12. In measure 12 we can hear the D strong in the bass, the F in the violins, and the Ab in the vocal ... or maybe you can't because this mix kinda sucks ...

The fourth phrase of the first verse is going to vary with some unexpected strength from the F in the bass of measure 15, (the third measure of the fourth phrase of verse 1). What is going on here ? Some movement towards a cadence is happening early here, a final cadence is being approached for this first verse, ahem. Am I pimping your subdominance ? Hell yeah I am ! While the sneeches swim around the dominant 7th, 'The Park' wants to fool you into a stronger iv - V - i cadence as presented at the end of the first phrase ... but it's perverted by the dim_ii_m7-V-i desire. And the word 'stars' occuring on the downbeat and the note is a 'D' and the bass note is a 'D' seems to support this ... so, where the hell are we going ? Well we are going to the chorus of ch-ourse sam, sam ... I am.

In the chorus the bees seem to be buzzing about a certain minor second sonority. The minor second formed by the celli between D and Eb. And these are two very important tones here. We've used the D to muddy up the security we feel we need sometimes early on and I'm going to continue to let it thrash around, and it is precisely the right tone to use amidst all this confusion to let you enjoy the AbM7 sonority I introduce here, and here is the V/V sonority I have been hinting about all along. The Eb is of course the tonic of Cm's parent key, and that Eb is also the dominant of any V/V that is going to occur. You are going to ignore the D here and what it might mean, all you will hear is the sonority of a minor second and you don't really care what is happening to produce it, you become desparate to hear the AbM7 sonority because it is so beautiful, and the lyric is looking positively depressing at this point. (Ab-C-Eb-G) ; The C is sustained by the violins from the previous Cm sonority. The Ab is in the vocal on the downbeat, 'fly', the violas support the Ab here an octave below the vocal. The contrabass gives us Ab early in the measure and then torments us by descending to the Major 7 our primary dominant. The piano fill walks distinctly through the outline of the AbM7 chord, and the organ, a new instrument is introduced with the Ab in the second half of the measure. Of course the Celli are voicing the dominan of the AbM7 sonority, Eb, and that's what all the buzz is about. The G, the 7th of the AbM7 serves as a resolution when the Cm sonority is voiced in the next measure, it's beauty once again becomes the beast.

As a child in Shreveport, I was an actor in a production of 'Beauty and the Beast' ... I was the younger brother, and I was gutted by the Beast ... I think it has affected me :D .

So on the lyric 'Daddy', the downbeat of a new phrase in this first Chorus, the cello's are giving us clear dominant sonority, a perfect 5th between C-G. The actual word Daddy occurs on the tone G and falls to the 7th of the G7 sonority. The organ pedals impatiently upon the low G tone, the piano in agreement with the note C, the Contrabass fully complying by pedaling on C. Whew, such relief.

As the trees begin dying, they do so gloriously. The C the violins have been holding is now the 13th of a quite painful Gm13, (G-Bb-D-F-Ab-C). The trees begin 'dying' on the 9th, and subcome fully on the dominant of the previously mentioned sonority. Celli hold the 5th and 3rd, contrabass the 3rd, piano stabs out the G and continues to fill with other notes in this sonority and the evil organ pedals dominantly on yes ... you guessed it, the note D. But the shows not over folks. Something evil springs from all this and the birds are ... crying.

In measure 23, as we begin singing the third line of the chorus we 'DO' return to strong dominance with the note G in almost every voice. The tones F and Ab 'CRY' out to us for a cadence, and we get that strongly at the end of the chorus as the Park is indeed lying in wait ... for what though ?

Ah, the evil Sluice arises from the ashes of the Gm13 to sing the second verse ... and perhaps there should be some of those electric guitar fills occuring here as Participant mentions, look closely at the melody there.

In the first verse, the sneeches 'naturally B playing with their stars on thars', so what is it with the rotten 'TIRES' and this big bodacious B natural. Is something major about to occur ? Are we being 'led' somewhere ? Or is our ear only being dominated for further trickery ? Perhaps that is up to the Sluicing of this song, eh ? We certainly can clearly 'C' the green blades of jaded grass are growing in the tonic sonority, and the 'poison jagged daggered spires' reach up to some minor subdominance again in the sonority of Fm, and we are impaled by the piano's B natural that demands a return to yes ... tonic ... C. Because we need to relax, and float about with Plato, so I whack you with a Cymbal to clear your ears out and drive home that tonic sonority.

Summertime in Fm is quite nice ... ahhhhh ... perhaps Erland is somewhere about with a refill for my hemlock wine ...

Then the dominant theme returns as you and Plato are drinking poison together ... sucker !

The hemlocks are growing amongst that 'D'-amn mud we were groaning about. The violins warning with the French 6th ... Ab dipping on to G, only hinting at the beauty of the previous AbM7 sonority and it's relative beauty.

The beast that has been slowly stalking ascends it's final few steps on piano keys, leaping up to that all powerful B natural and settling in on C once again. Reaching not just a dominant postition of G'ness ... in all it's craftiness ... but arriving centerstage in full blown C, the tympanny, the cymbals all driving it home, all voices sounding the tone C as the beast's huge poison feet slam wetly to the wooden slats of the stage !

Has the question been answered ... Has 'The Park' become the beast ?

Just before this, on the word 'Joys', almost all voices are sounding the tone Eb, and that strong a sonority with Eb has not been used thus far. And we continue quickly to 'Totally Defile' with a strong F-G sonority ...

And what are the repercussions of all this ? The seem to be Eb, I want to get out of all this funk and depression, a nice Eb MAJOR chord would be nice about now, and we want it. But maybe I'll throw you back in 'D' 'F'ing hemlock patch. And then maybe we really don't know what we are 'drumming' up. Minor ... Major ? Bnat, Bb ??? We certainly are declining ... and I think 'The Beast' is winning ...

The second chorus is much the same as the first, and we are brought back into an awareness of how we got into this big mess in the first place ...

Tune in next week kids to the next installment of Theoretical Beast, same station, new mix, but that's just a theory :D

I won't pretend to have comprehended everything you wrote but, I can say this much;

The character count limit is 25,000 for any one post and you barely scraped over the 16,000 mark!!

You're obviously not trying hard enough!:eek:
 
The Ghost of FM said:
I won't pretend to have comprehended everything you wrote but, I can say this much;

The character count limit is 25,000 for any one post and you barely scraped over the 16,000 mark!!

You're obviously not trying hard enough!:eek:

I ... I know ... <sniff> I suck ... I suck, just like the rest of you lame WHACKO'S sitting at your 'puters making music nobody else understands ... except ... <sniff> ... me ... oops ... docs here, gotta go ...
 
Whoa! I totally see the comparisons to broadway or what Sluice would like even better is tell him it's the "lost song" from one of those Tim Burton claymation movies. HA!! That laughing cracks me up!!!

Seriously you have orchestral arrangement down pat, nice strings and nice timpani(?) was that it?

Anyway, it sounds like this kind of theatrical stuff is the kind of stuff he can eat up chew out for dinner (is that a real metaphor? :confused: ) Looking forward to hearing the final result.

Oh one other thing, you had this post that was full o' info but man it was just TOO long, i love to read about making music but maybe break it up into pieces and dole it out in bite sized servings or something. Hoping for the cliff notes.
 
This sucked...me in. :D

So, you're one of them "Greenies" down there in A-Town, huh? Well then, you're okay with me.

I'll try to stay on point. I like hearing stuff come together in parts...in a way, it kinda' dilutes the impact of the finished product for those who are able to keep up with the progress, but in another much more important way, it KILLS to be able to see the path. You picked the right guy to sing this, btw. I don't want Tom to get mad or anything, but a lot of his earlier recordings still remind me of stuff that could have been sung by Jack the Pumpkin King in "The Nightmare Before Christmas."

Baron Creek - Yeah, a shame. Haven't lived in Austin since '89. Man, I miss parts of it, and other parts (like the apparent inability of the council to allow the construction of an actual traffic loop around the city) just piss me off. Grew too fast, I think.

Anyway...the song did suck me in. The only suggestions I can think of at this point would be to include the BPM information, as there's not a lot to hang on to rhythmically to lay down the vocal...but you know all this, lmao.

sorry for the interruption.
 
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