New tune - "SOngabout" - Big ol' jam tune with 10 horns

Llarion

Llarion

New member
***NEW MIX POSTED IN POST 25

Finally got the last tune for the new CD put together! It's not got much of a melody really, it's just an excuse to get to the solo sections and let the horn players and organist rip...

Bayside Horns - all 10 horn parts
Dan O'Hara - Organ solo
Me - Everything else

http://www.reverbnation.com/philtraynor
Songabout is the first tune...

Did I get it right juggling all that brass? Thanks in advance!
 
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Nice capture.
Very clean.
Very funky.
the solo section is very restrained compared to the section honking before it.
 
Thanks Ray! It didn't pass the car test this morning; so it's going back in the shop for some twiddling... :)
 
only thing i would consider a "mistake" is dont combine vsti horns with real ones... it just makes the real one sound like vsti's...
 
nowt to say except all sounded great to me....

the wife just said "why cant you sound like that honey" we laughed before I shot her ;)



great stuff, loved the horns and the bass especially..super polished
 
dementedchord said:
only thing i would consider a "mistake" is dont combine vsti horns with real ones... it just makes the real one sound like vsti's...
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Good tip; if I had done that. ;) All the horns are real. But I know what you mean, I did have a keyboard synth track (played in realtime, I don't know how to sequence) in there in the early arranging stages, and it did sound weird when I left it in by accident on an early mix test.

Thanks KC, I hope your wife isn't too mad at me for making you shoot her by mistake. :)
 
Dude, that trumpet solo around 1:35 or so wails. Nice playing and comes out strong on the recording. Shit, nice organ solo. Nice sax as well. The intro sax (alto?) is strong I think mainly in the EQ because it is a high-voiced sax. I wonder if a little deductive high end EQ may soften it for an intro. Beautiful, but very strong with EQ as-is as an introductory voice as I hear it. Man listen to those keys. Is that tenor sax coming in for a solo in the late 3:00-4:00 area? Nice. You obviously know what you are doing as a player/composer.
 
Seeker of Rock said:
Dude, that trumpet solo around 1:35 or so wails. Nice playing and comes out strong on the recording. Shit, nice organ solo. Nice sax as well. The intro sax (alto?) is strong I think mainly in the EQ because it is a high-voiced sax. I wonder if a little deductive high end EQ may soften it for an intro. Beautiful, but very strong with EQ as-is as an introductory voice as I hear it. Man listen to those keys. Is that tenor sax coming in for a solo in the late 3:00-4:00 area? Nice. You obviously know what you are doing as a player/composer.
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Thanks man! The lead line is doubled/harmonized alto sax and flugelhorn. There are 4 trumpet parts, a tenor sax part, a bari sax part, and the trumpet and bari solos. Bayside Horns (Kevin Clark and Matt Gawlik) play all of those. I'm doing all of the rhythm section (drums, percussion, piano & Rhodes sounds, guitars), and my buddy Dan O'Hara took the organ solo, since I can't solo on nothin'. :) This mix didn't quite pass the car test; the lead line felt too big to me (as it did to you), and the drums lacked a little ass, and the whole thing has a little too much upper mid, I think. I'm gonna twiddle...
 
Llarion said:
Thanks man! The lead line is doubled/harmonized alto sax and flugelhorn. There are 4 trumpet parts, a tenor sax part, a bari sax part, and the trumpet and bari solos. Bayside Horns (Kevin Clark and Matt Gawlik) play all of those. I'm doing all of the rhythm section (drums, percussion, piano & Rhodes sounds, guitars), and my buddy Dan O'Hara took the organ solo, since I can't solo on nothin'. :) This mix didn't quite pass the car test; the lead line felt too big to me (as it did to you), and the drums lacked a little ass, and the whole thing has a little too much upper mid, I think. I'm gonna twiddle...
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Maybe try pulling back the horn in the intro and letting the sax dominate instead of competing, but I think it was probably the harmonic notes mixed strongly that took away from the "umph" of that alto sax, least the way I hear it?
Rhodes, eh? Not many of those or players who know what to do with them around like they used to be. Good to know there are still some people left like you that appreciate them and know how to make them groove.:):):)
 
Seeker of Rock said:
Maybe try pulling back the horn in the intro and letting the sax dominate instead of competing, but I think it was probably the harmonic notes mixed strongly that took away from the "umph" of that alto sax, least the way I hear it?
Rhodes, eh? Not many of those or players who know what to do with them around like they used to be. Good to know there are still some people left like you that appreciate them and know how to make them groove.:):):)
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Funny you should say that; I had it more like you said at first, and the flugel player wondered why it wasn't higher up so I tried it his way to see. :) I may have to split the difference or go back to what I had before. :D
 
Very, very good mix with a lot going on. This is so far out of my comfort zone that I can't do anything but just sit and listen. Everything seems to sit and fit just right. I'm loving the bass. Nothing seems wacky or out of place to me. Excellent job.
 
Thanks so much Greg and Gerry! For the record, I JUST uploaded the corrected, and what I think is the final mix. I did back the melody down a smidge, nestled the harmony flugelhorn in underneather it a little, and just generally made things a but more even than they were...
 
Great stuff, Phil.

If I was mixing this, I'd bring the drums up a bit. There are times where they get a little blurry behind everything else.

And, while I do hear panning, it still seems a little too centred somehow. The organ solo is interesting in that you have the organ playing wide left and right, while the rest of the band seems to be pretty centred, instead of the (conventional???) other way around for a solo.

These are minor nits, but since I've come to expect close to perfection from you, they were worth mentioning.

Great playing and arrangement throughout.
 
RAMI said:
Great stuff, Phil.

If I was mixing this, I'd bring the drums up a bit. There are times where they get a little blurry behind everything else.

And, while I do hear panning, it still seems a little too centred somehow. The organ solo is interesting in that you have the organ playing wide left and right, while the rest of the band seems to be pretty centred, instead of the (conventional???) other way around for a solo.

These are minor nits, but since I've come to expect close to perfection from you, they were worth mentioning.

Great playing and arrangement throughout.
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Thanks man!! When did you listen? I just stuck a new mix up about 10 minutes ago. The organ's patch in the synth autopans, that's why that's like that. :) As for the "centeredness", I discovered that if you pan the horns too wide or too narrow, you run into phase-related trouble, at least that's what it acts and sounds like. Seems like there's a sweet spot for them. As it turns out, if you picture a big band on a stage, assuming the trumpets are on the left, and you figure the last guy is at about 45-50 degrees and the middle guy is at about 5 degrees, and split them evenly, you get a pretty authentic sound. The saxes spread down the right the same way. I have the bari sax in the horn section nearly hard panned right. the shaker is hard panned left, the tambo is hard panned right. Now, their reverb widths introduce some artifact to the other channel, but that's minor... the drums take up the whole field, the guitar is about 50 degrees on the right...

I wonder if the sheer density of it is making it sound centered...
 
Llarion said:
I wonder if the sheer density of it is making it sound centered...
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Could be...but also, take what I say with a grain of salt, since this type of music is far from being my expertise.

But (without actually going to listen), if I try to remember how I would imagine this being done by a big band, a la Buddy Rich for example, or Earth Wind and Fire, it seems to me it would just be wider, though that's not really the right word. Maybe it is too dense, like you say. But I don't think so. The arrangements are great.
 
RAMI said:
Could be...but also, take what I say with a grain of salt, since this type of music is far from being my expertise.

But (without actually going to listen), if I try to remember how I would imagine this being done by a big band, a la Buddy Rich for example, or Earth Wind and Fire, it seems to me it would just be wider, though that's not really the right word. Maybe it is too dense, like you say. But I don't think so. The arrangements are great.
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My part in the horn arrangements is more "suggestions". Kevin Clark of Bayside Horns did the heavy lifting on the arrangements. The arrangement I did was like 1/10th as cool. :)
 
Very nice. Sounds like you guys had a lot of fun putting this one together. If I might be so bold to say, I thought the crashes were a little crisp and prominent during the solos. i don't think they were balanced with the snare or hi-hat. No one else mentioned it, so maybe it's just me. Eh, take it with a grain of salt.

You always put out great stuff. Is this a fulltime job for you?

Cheers,
 
Chili said:
Very nice. Sounds like you guys had a lot of fun putting this one together. If I might be so bold to say, I thought the crashes were a little crisp and prominent during the solos. i don't think they were balanced with the snare or hi-hat. No one else mentioned it, so maybe it's just me. Eh, take it with a grain of salt.

You always put out great stuff. Is this a fulltime job for you?

Cheers,
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I wish. It'd be my life's dream to run a big and successful studio. No, I'm a regulation computer nerd during the day. This is my nights and weekends thing. I just invested in it and study everything I can (I learn TONS here...) Hiring great players to work with is always a big help too. :)
 
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