It's been a while my friends......

SOUND DIAGNOSIS

SOUND DIAGNOSIS

New member
It's been a while my friends, since I have contributed anything to this great site and clinic. I have put together a medley of 4 cover songs in an attempt to better establish my act locally. Tech notes of interest:


*Kurzweil K2600X. Sequence dumped>Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card. (seperate multi-tracking should have been done instead of a full sequence dump-aroo. Oh well, next project!)

*Cool Edit Pro 2.1

*Marshall MXL V67 mic

*JOEMEEK V3CQ PRE AMP

*Yorkville YSM1P near field monitors (my NEW aquisition...can you fall in love with monitors?)

*P.S. Special thanks to all participants on this site for the collective treasure trove of knowledge that they impart on all of us!!

Promo Medley
 
General Midi Overload!

Piano Man:
Definitely not the best piano patch I've ever heard - sounds very much like plastic.... so do the drums.... Vocal is over-sibilant & thin and lacking depth/presence... and that accent is simply way too much....


Tiny Dancer:
Better overall sound than Piano Man - vocal has more presence but still some sibilance. Still hate the drums...


Cats In the Cradle:
Bad timing on the intro.... way too much reverb on the vocal and your phrasing is questionable.... your chosen patches are not very convincing and what's up with the funky tempo - you're all over the place with it!


Have you Ever Seen The Rain:
Again - some of the patches are very plastic-sounding - thin and flat with no depth. This is much better than the previous cut.... better vocal too...



You've got some skills -- but I think you need to improve your choice of patch selection and arrangements, and work on the sloppy performance issues and vocal phrasing (placement and timing of words and syllables is absolutely critical....)

Good luck.......!
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
General Midi Overload!

Piano Man:
Definitely not the best piano patch I've ever heard - sounds very much like plastic.... so do the drums.... Vocal is over-sibilant & thin and lacking depth/presence... and that accent is simply way too much....


Tiny Dancer:
Better overall sound than Piano Man - vocal has more presence but still some sibilance. Still hate the drums...


Cats In the Cradle:
Bad timing on the intro.... way too much reverb on the vocal and your phrasing is questionable.... your chosen patches are not very convincing and what's up with the funky tempo - you're all over the place with it!


Have you Ever Seen The Rain:
Again - some of the patches are very plastic-sounding - thin and flat with no depth. This is much better than the previous cut.... better vocal too...



You've got some skills -- but I think you need to improve your choice of patch selection and arrangements, and work on the sloppy performance issues and vocal phrasing (placement and timing of words and syllables is absolutely critical....)

Good luck.......!
Click to expand...


Thanks for taking the time to listen to this stuff, Blue. I am glad someone took the time to divy up some recommendations! I'll review your observations carefully. ---Lee
 
Blue, what would you do in my case, if you owned the flagship Kurzweil K26X with as you state, "plastic" patches, throughout?? (NO "overloaded" general midi by the way) Would you ditch the keys in favor of a Korg Karma, or Yamaha? :rolleyes: Perhaps stay away from the stock sounds? I can appreciate your points about timing, but the other issues leave me perplexed as to exactly what you might suggest for a remedy. THAT, would be major helpful. Could it be the type of equipment I possess and used to make up this demo? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ---Lee
 
Well, I'm not much into keyboards personally, so I can't advise except that many of the patches you used in those cuts sounded very artificial and unrealistic. So if that's a flagship model, that's scary because I've heard better -- Roland's digital pianos sound almost flawless, so I know there are much better samples there. Perhaps you applied too much processing during either tracking or mixing??

If not, and those were stock patches, you can certainly clean them up -- many manufacturers dowse their pre-loaded patches in effects to give them punch during headphone demos in the store.

So they tend to be over-EQ'd and heavy on the reverb/delays/choruses. So you can improve things immediately by taking the extraneous stuff out - or at least adjusting it to more realsitc levels.

I'm guessing it's a combination of maybe too much processing, as well as not taking enough care when selecting patches to ensure that they are appropriate for the context of the song.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Well, I'm not much into keyboards personally, so I can't advise except that many of the patches you used in those cuts sounded very artificial and unrealistic. So if that's a flagship model, that's scary because I've heard better -- Roland's digital pianos sound almost flawless, so I know there are much better samples there. Perhaps you applied too much processing during either tracking or mixing??

If not, and those were stock patches, you can certainly clean them up -- many manufacturers dowse their pre-loaded patches in effects to give them punch during headphone demos in the store.

So they tend to be over-EQ'd and heavy on the reverb/delays/choruses. So you can improve things immediately by taking the extraneous stuff out - or at least adjusting it to more realsitc levels.

I'm guessing it's a combination of maybe too much processing, as well as not taking enough care when selecting patches to ensure that they are appropriate for the context of the song.
Click to expand...


Thanks for further explaining your observations. I have been around acoustic pianos my entire life, Dad worked for Steinway, I tone-regulated for Sohmer, and have heard some shitty digital reproductions, however I must disagree with your impression on the artificial and unrealistic nature of the tone of the keyboards in the piece's presented. I also feel the mandolin's, strings, drums....they sound convincing to me to work in the context of the work as presented as well. Just doesn't make sense according to the "audio baseline" I have developed after years of playing and being around acoustic pianos of all types and manufacturers. But I am in great appreciation of your opinion, and I KNOW it is a learned opinion, as you have a studio and I assume know your shit. (I've been reading your well meaning "tough-love" posts, too!) I really don't mean to criticize YOUR criticism, but I am trying to genuinely make sense of your take on this stuff with only good intentions, Bruce. :)
So I ask anyone else following this thread, to kindly add to Blue Bears assessment of my demo, especially regarding the artificiality that is said to exist in the patches. I just don't "hear" them. Thanks again Blue...and all who respond. ---Lee
 
Hey man...I see that BB stopped by, and while I haven't read his comments, I'm confident he probably covered it.

First and foremost, I think you've got the performance thing down. You articulate a little too much for my taste; I like a sloppy, headstrong vocal, as long as it's in key. I'm sure this makes no sense, and it's probably just the way you sing...I just want more "ugly" in the vocal, lol...I liked your vocal on the CCR tune the best. That's a mother to sing, isn't it?

crits:
Drum sounds are pretty fake. Kick might be too loud throughout. Same for the organ patch in Have You Ever Seen...needs a tremolo or something.

Anyway, ramblings aside, I'm really just being pretty picky. Nice job, and I loved the selection of tunes.



-The Complete And Total Jerk
 
SOUND DIAGNOSIS said:
....however I must disagree with your impression on the artificial and unrealistic nature of the tone of the keyboards in the piece's presented. I also feel the mandolin's, strings, drums....they sound convincing to me to work in the context of the work as presented as well.
Click to expand...
Sorry lee, if you can't hear it, then your ears aren't as good as you think they are....!

Seriously - I'm not trying to be personally insulting.... but a good deal of the patches you chose (especially the pianos) don't sound realistic at all. If you were in my studio, I'd be all over you suggesting you'd want to switch patches or adjust them to get them sounder closer to the real thing.

You either, A) processed the crap out of them during tracking/mixing, or B) need a better monitoring system....

Bottom-line is that the arrangements, as presented, sound little better than karaoke backing tracks, and that's not a good thing! I think you could have done much better with what you have at your disposal (just trying to get you to live up to your potential!) ;)

But hey - - if you're happy with them, that's all that really counts!
 
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I try not to read threads before I post in them, and I ALWAYS scroll past the thoughts of the heavy hitters, like BB, until after I've listened and formed my own opinions. I learn stuff this way.

Obviously, I try to read the threads after I've commented.

That said, I'll say that I guess I agreed with Bruce on the drum sounds, b/c I commented on it...and I also commented on the organ sound...so to the extent that's a "patch choice," then I guess that's another vote.

I will also add that while I didn't comment on it, the mandolin caught my attention. I didn't think it was a bad sound at all...but I found myself wondering how a mandolin is played on a keyboard or sequencer...What I'm saying is that it sounded real enough for me to wonder how in the world things like string attack are accomplished without the instrument, but at the same time, I didn't think for a second that it was a real mandolin, so maybe that's helpful to you. As far as whether there's a "better" mando "patch" out there, I have no idea...If I've heard better ones, they were good enough to fool me entirely.

PNO - Honestly, none of the key sounds stuck out to me as being out of place or overly synthetic. Please understand that I've grown up probably hearing more keyboard piano than real piano, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

I'm only posting again b/c you seem to be genuinely interested in your sounds, and you don't look like you're looking for some kind of a fight. :D

My original post contains the things that stood out to me.
 
I think that Bruce has all the details as usual....but one thing that I noticed was a sort of distorted quality to the sound. Like you were cutting it right at overload or something.
I've booked bands with demos that didn't sound this good.......but I think you could get the mix quite a bit better.
 
if you tried to make every instrument realistic then the weak point in your medley are definitively the drums, wich doesn't sound realn at all; I'm not an expert in piano, but that was even the best instrument,while other instruments are played insome spots too perfect(or without groove) to be real.

very nice voc there.

cheers
 
Chris Harris:
Well, first off I IMMEDIATELY dumped the Harry Chapin tune. BB stated the timing was all over the place not to mention "correct" phrasing. No shit....like ALL over the place, and the chamber was way too large as well. Great advice. I scrapped that puppy, PRONTO! It's a new tune in my arsenal. Must listen to it a bit more, iffens' I want to totally "imitate" the original, which I am trying NOT to do as of late. Man I rushed the shit outta this thing anyway. Not multitracked, no sonic control over individual tracks. UUUUGHHHHHH!!! :( This was not a "professional" promo if you will. Just something "home-made" to put out there on the local newspaper website as a taste of what I have...or what I don't have. LOL. It sounds real close live, which my customers out there can and do appreciate. I also should have not used the "rock piano" patch which is brighter and cuts through a bit better, but it is comprised of many less layers that the other stock piano proggies on my Kurz. Live and learn. F.Y.I., love listening to your stuff, Chris. Always a good thing going on there, dude. Thanks for listening! ---Lee

Lt Bob:
At ease, sir! Don't you play the sax, or am I remembering another Lt. of some sort? Hmmm. Anyhoo, thanks for taking the time to review this stuff for me. Maybe a bit bass heavy regarding your "overload" observation? I toned down the bass a bit in the revised medley at Nowhere, among other attempts to polish my proverbial "turd" . I agree. A bit too HEAVVVVVY. Thanks!!!! ---Lee

Groovejunkie: I am going to get some opinions on the "kurzweil side of the fence" regarding the quality of the stock drum kits. I am curious to see if I have been missing out on some good CD soundsets out there. Sheesh, I have SCSI capabilities now, I think it may be time to invest in some "real" kits, eh? Thanks for the EAR. :) --Lee

You guys have all been very up front and polite and most helpful @ usual. I have some stuff to work on for future projects which I will at least try out, if not incorporate advice I have benifitted from here at homerec. Thanks. ---Lee

Remember....don't shoot piano players. ROFL!! :D :D :D
 
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