Brown Eyed Girl redux

Tom Hicks

Tom Hicks

Well-known member
I recorded and posted this tune a few weeks ago and Paul Townsend of Germany heard it.He asked me to let him do the lead vocal and turned in a great vocal take.I tweaked the mix a bit (finally starting to get the concept of unmasking the mix) and I think it sounds more transparent now.Please give it a listen and offer any tips or suggestions about the mix or arrangement.

Brown Eyed Girl Collaboration
 
Okay Tom: I can tell the vocal performance is good, but honestly, the mix isn't doing it much of a favor. You posted a tune a couple of months ago, with your vocal, and it sounded like it was recorded in a missile silo or something with all of the verb. That is what this sounds like to me. If you're going for a kind of a live sound, you got it. The vocal levels are okay, but it's like the whole performance is taking place in another room next to the one I'm in.

I don't know how to fix that, or even if you want to fix that. Sorry if this doesn't help.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris
Help me out here.There is a short plate verb on an aux send shared by the lead and harmony vocals.The individual snare track (which is mixed pretty low compared to the amount of snare in the overheads) also has a smidge of short verb.The overheads are a pair of omni ECM8000s in the "mixerman 3 mic" position (about 30" equidistant from the center of the snare head)with all drums individually close miced as well.The drum room is about 15X30 and acoustically untreated,plaster walls and carpet on hardwood floor.So there is that ambient room tone.That is everything that is miced.Guitars,keyboards and bass are basically DI so I assume you don't refer to them.
Are the omni overheads putting too much of the drum room in the mix for your liking?I am doing some drum tracks this weekend.Several ideas I want to try are using the omnis as "underheads" ,positioned below the level of the cymbals like I've seen on some old TV shows.Also using two unmatched big diaphragm cardis (NT1 and MXL V76,hey,its all I have...) in the traditional xy position with the capsules almost touching.Any suggestions welcomed from you or the gang here.
Thanks for listening anyway and for the comments.
 
Take Back...

I owe you an apology. ...I just realized that I had a funky "ambient" setting button pushed on playback. That's embarrassing...I think yours was the only song I listened to like that...holy crap. Sorry about that. The drums sound live, because they are, and the crashes sound really good. Everybody acts like purists when it comes to drums, like you SHOULD use real drums, but then I know that I've become spoiled with drum SOUNDS that cannot realistically be reproduced on a live kit. This sounds very true to the original, which makes sense, because that's how I thought it sounded the first time you posted it.

Okay, that's my 2 cents on the drums...and you have to take any criticism I may have of drums with a total grain of salt. As far as the vocal goes, I don't know how to explain it very well...it's just not "present" enough. Man, I have no idea how to fix that, or if you even want to...I'm thinking it's just the way it was recorded. It actually fits with the vibe of the song. I've got a song posted right now...give it a listen. If you don't like the way the vocal sounds, then we'll know something.

Again, sorry about the detour, but it sounded so damned bad...it wasn't you.
 
Sounds pretty good....has a very 'live' sound to it.....drums sound live.....bass is strong, vocal is a little thin sounding to me, coulds use a little more presence, I would bump up the EQ on the vocals around 750-800hz, and for more presence maybe add a little 3k....this is all nit-picking 'cause it sounds pretty good overall. How'd ya'll do the collaboration? Mp3s or wave?
 
Tom - Very nice. I liked this alot. I agree that it has a very "live" sound to it. Like you're listening to a club band.


The only negative for me is the drums. They are way too busy for my taste. Too many fills and crashes. It tends to draw your attention away from the vocal and the guitar, which to me is where the song should focus. Drum sound is OK, I just would have played them alot straighter.

Guitar sounds great and well played. Very well done.
 
OK...I play in a wedding band and play that song...and I can tell you that you didn't do it that much like the original. The song doesn't start with drums and you shortened the intro. BUT...thats what music is about right?

With that said, I like the drum sound for this song. It don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds very much like a mic was just stuck up in a good room. Nice balance to the drums and very natural sound. I have agree for that song there are too many fills, and whats worse the fills have very little variety. Also I don't think I ever remember hearing the drummer hit a china on that song! :)

Vocals are good; I like them. Want to know what this song is missing. ORGAN !ORGAN! ORGAN! Thats really an integral part of this song. ORGAN! ORGAN! ORGAN!

Did I mention ORGAN! :)

Beezoboy
 
sorry beezoboy, I've been playing that song for 30 years and that's pretty much exactly like the original. The intro is exactly that long, he hasn't shortened it at all. I don't think Van Morrison had that drum riff to start it off but other than that this is pretty close to the original.
 
Chris
Thanks for responding.The lead vocal was a 96kbps .wma file (converted to a .wav file with the dBpoweramp converter) from a fellow named Paul Townsend in Germany,while the rest of the mix was 24 bit 44.1k.So that sonic difference in file resolution is there for the ear to hear.I also think I boosted the EQ (about 300 Hz) too much on his voice trying to "thicken" his naturally thin sound in the low mids.

Lt Bob
I swept his voice with a para EQ in the 1-4k "presence" range and it just seemed to emphasize a nasal quality.I think I put touch of EQ about 800 Hz-ish,maybe 5 dB.All the files were resident on my hard drive except the .wma file he sent me.I had prepared an instrumental .wma version for him to record to use as a time sync.I had to use my scissor tool and a touch of offsetting on his vocal file to make it jigsaw in the mix.Just minor tweaking though.

Dachay2tnr
Thanks for listening.I just let the drummer do whatever he wanted to.Usually,I have to get by with samples and drum machines.Right now,I still have his kit set up and miced and am trying to learn how better to record acoustic drums.He is definately not a pocket player and was unable to play to a click.

Beezoboy
Hi.Untill this past July,I was in a longterm classic rock band and this tune was in our regular set list.When I decided to try recording it,I got an .mp3 of Van Morrison performing it to go by.Interestingly,I came across two versions.One was edited to remove the line "Making love in the green grass..." and replaced with "Laughin'and a runnin',hey hey...".So I did the R rated version.By the way,listen carefully and you will hear both a B3 organ patch and a piano patch giving unobtrusive body to the mix.The organ is heard most clearly on the fadeout.

The drummer is coming for more tracking Sunday and I have already set up my "underhead" positions experiment with the Berry ECMs.We'll see how that turns out.
 
Hey Tom (know you from somewhere don't I...?:)):

I think the drums sound great & overall the only problem that leaps out at me is the voice. It's definitely needs a bit more prescence in the mix. I'm not great at guessing specific eqs but it feels to me like the mids need to be cut a bit to open the sound up, with maybe a tiny boost in the neighborhood of 4k to give it some bite. Or it could just be a matter of tinkering with the reverb to allow the voice to sit with the mix without sounding "cloudy".

As far as the music itself, I'd like to hear the guitar emphasized a bit more & the keyboards a little less. In fact I'd wager that eqing the vocal would be easier if the keyboards weren't in there taking up so much "space". But that's just nitpicking. Really, this is a solid cover of a good tune.

Chris
 
I love this recording!!

My small critisism would be the backing vocals seem to leap out and then slowly fade during each phrase (SHA LA la la). Could this be a compression prob, or simply my ears .... ?

I wouldnt change the vocal, it suits the track down to a T.

Sorry, I read everyone elses posts and I'm just sitting here bopping in my seat. I like it as it is!! heh typical!

Cheers
Dee
 
all a matter of taste...

...sounds like you captured a 60's vibe here, esp. w/the recording...

Would like some more thud from the snare... Bass is nice & round... w/the way the vox sound now, it would work as a 60's style production... but if going for a more modern production sound, I'd personally use a different mic on that voice. Something with more body and detail...

Is it just me, or do the hi-hats get louder, and softer during the song? For instance 1:59-2:03... Intentional? Hmm... to me, almost sounds too loud relative to the rest of the mix... what do I know? :o

Good musicianship
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top