Self-destructiveness and creativity....

[miroslav]

I know this is not specifically a mixing and mastering topic…but I think most guys that do any recording of other artists will have run into this at one time or another.

I notice that some artists have a built-in almost self-destructive nature (and some are literally self-destructive)…or they have the very delicate/edgy egos, and need to be treated with kid gloves at all times.
What I’m wondering is how many of those types actually NEED that self-destructive, ego-centric behavior in order to be as creative as they are?
IOW…for those people, is one without the other even possible? If you took away their self-destructiveness…would their creativity fall flat?


It's like the age-old question....do some people really need to live the blues in order to sing/play the blues really well?

 

[DrewPeterson7]

My personal experience has been that it tends to go both ways.

Some of my best material has been written when I was either really happy or really down, at the complete limits of my emotional pendulum. That material probably wouldn't have happened had I been more even-keeled.

Then again, the song that I've recorded that most people who've heard my stuff consider my "best" tune just sort of happened, while walking back from the cafeteria one day on campus. I'd written the fist half of it previously, but I wasn't sure where to take it from there. And walking back, not really thinking about anything, on a grey fall day, I just started humming this melody. I went back to my dorm, turned my amp back on, hit record, and that was that.

I think the one common thread here was that generally when I write well, it's very unconcious - I'm writing from outside "me" as a person. I'm either emotionally so messed up/on cloud nine that normal day-to-day concerns and thoughts just aren't present, or I'm just so absent minded and empty-headed for whatever reason (I've also had good results writing/recording alone late at night) that nothing gets in the way and the music just flows.

I guess I can see, then, that it's almost one small step from needing to step out from yourself to write well, to actively trying to wage war upon yourself to get whatever it is that holds you back out of the way.

 

[gecko zzed]

What I’m wondering is how many of those types actually NEED that self-destructive, ego-centric behavior in order to be as creative as they are?
IOW…for those people, is one without the other even possible? If you took away their self-destructiveness…would their creativity fall flat?

I've often wondered about this myself. My (interim) view is that it is mental instability that often results in creative genius, i.e. they go hand in hand, and that if you fix the first, you ruin the second.

But I don't think it is exclusively so, i.e. you don't have to be mad to be a genius.

An anecdote: When I was at work there was this guy who used to 'think on the outside', i.e. he would formulate his ideas by talking (whereas I think through ideas, then talk). He came up with very clever ideas and made valuable contributions. However, because his thinking was verbalised, he was often blunt and abrasive . . . he said what he thought. This upset some people, so he was urged to be more diplomatic and tactful. He heeded this advice, and was less vocal. The consequence was that we got no more good ideas. The process that allowed those ideas to be germinated had been strangled. The attempt to 'socialise' this person had stifled his creativity.

 

[RAMI]

My personal experience has been that it tends to go both ways.

I agree with this, and it applies to many things related to creativity.

I remember watching an Aerosmith documentary called "The Making of Pump". One of the best rock documentaries I've ever seen.

In one part, Joe Perry's talking about drugs, etc.....There's one thing he said that always stayed with me. He was talking about the effect of getting high on one's creativity.

He says, at first, you wake up in the morning and you light up a joint, put 'Highway Star' on and your juices start flowing. You can't sit still and you pick up your guitar and write something better than you've ever written. After a few years, it's the opposite: You wake up, light up a joint and get numb. You're not even getting high to feel good. You're just getting high to not feel too shit.

I think it's the same thing with anything else. A little self-destructiveness, or anger, or sadness, or arrogance, or any other "negative" force can give you a bit of an "edge". But, too much of anything will just eat you up.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Music, like poetry, artwork, etc. is about emotion. The closer one is in touch with their emotions, or the closer their emotions to the surface, the more likely their artistic bent.

The ones in touch with their emotions tend to be the ones who retain their sanity or most avoid self-abuse and self-destruction. The ones with their emotions closer to the surface and less under self-control tend to be the ones with the more self-destructive tendencies.

Do you need to live the blues to play them? Everybody has the blues inside of them somewhere. Living them means bringing them to the surface. But it is possible to be in touch with them without having to necessarily live them. Perhaps not for everybody, but I tend to believe that unless one is attracted to music strictly for the science of it, it's that in-touchness that turned them to music to begin with.

I know musicians, pro and am, who are masters of the science - the math and logic of music because they are masters of math and logic, and write the most incredible pieces of music, but without the touch of their own suppressed or underdeveloped emotion, you don't really want to listen to their pieces more than a couple of times before they bore you. OTOH, there are those that can't write or play any more than a 12-bar two chord progression, but can do so in a way that gives you goosebumps every time you hear them because they are channeling emotion through their instrument. 99.99% of musical artists fall somewhere in between those two extremes, 0.009% at one extreme or the other, and 0.001% at both extremes at the same time .

IMHO and all that jazz.

G.

 

[Seafroggys]

My best music was made during my emo phases....let me itirate that I don't write emo music (*shudders*) but there are times in my life I was incredibly down and depressed over events in my life that in the grand scheme of things weren't so bad....but it made me write the most powerful music I have ever written.

 

[Dr. Varney]

Music, like poetry, artwork, etc. is about emotion. The closer one is in touch with their emotions, or the closer their emotions to the surface, the more likely their artistic bent.

Absolutely... I couldn't agree more.

The work of so many artists and musicians contains emotions and when you're working with emotions, you have to expect there will be some of it rising to the surface...

But there are difficult people and interesting characters in all walks of life - not just in the creative genre...

...And there is this thing called 'professionalism'. It's a measure of how well a person can live and work alongside their emotions, without allowing them to spoil working relationships - often without which, the production might not happen anyway.

So you can't expect a flat line of emotion when delving into emotive subjects... It's just that some people are a pain in the butt and use this fact as an excuse to play up and cause difficulty for those around them. The music and acting industry still contains people who haven't quite learned it so if you go into this area then one has to be ready and armed to deal with it. I've come across people who will act like spoiled brats and blame it on their 'eccentricity' but they fail to see the difference between being eccentric and being a total and utter arsehole. There is such a thing as being considerate to your colleagues as well as being highly individualistic.

Sometimes it's unavoidable so what counts is how you deal with it.

Me - I'm clinically depressed so I think it's overrated. I do my best work when I'm feeling on top.

As the old saying goes: "Where there is balance, there is power..."(sic)

Dr. V