Mixdown sounds "pumpy"

[Jay C]

hey guys, i've noticed one of my tracks had a real pumpy sound like too much compression after mixdown, i did not hear this in the DAW before mixdown.. i did use a limiter just to add a little bit of volume, and i think that's the problem, just wondering if anyone has any insight on this...

thanks all.

 

[jimmys69]

What limiter?

It takes more than just adding a limiter to the mix to make it loud or what many foolishly (including myself) claim to be 'mastered'. If this is just one of your tracks that does this, then there is something in the mix that is causing it. Likely some low end stuff that is causing the limiter to choke it. Look at the gain reduction on the limiter, and you should be able to know what it is. If it is the kick drum that is causing it to squash, then start there.

Don't get me wrong, I home master (ish) when I have to. Mostly because of budget constraints for myself and clients. But it is easy to get things loud. Not easy to get a unbiased master of the mix you have in your head.

 

[Jay C]

What limiter?

It takes more than just adding a limiter to the mix to make it loud or what many foolishly (including myself) claim to be 'mastered'. If this is just one of your tracks that does this, then there is something in the mix that is causing it. Likely some low end stuff that is causing the limiter to choke it. Look at the gain reduction on the limiter, and you should be able to know what it is. If it is the kick drum that is causing it to squash, then start there.

Don't get me wrong, I home master (ish) when I have to. Mostly because of budget constraints for myself and clients. But it is easy to get things loud. Not easy to get a unbiased master of the mix you have in your head.

Jimmy ... Thank you very much,, the kick was the cause.. i've been finding compression to be one of the harder things to pick up on... the limiter is by oxford..
also have been meaning to ask you Jimmy, b/c i use Sonar x2, and really like it,, you are obviously a cubase man.. i use vst instruments for drums and bass and record guitar tracks, probly the same thing lots of ppl are doing. just wondering what reasons would be for me to switch to cubase ? vst quality or what ever?

thanks again dude.

 

[jimmys69]

Jimmy ... Thank you very much,, the kick was the cause.. i've been finding compression to be one of the harder things to pick up on... the limiter is by oxford..
also have been meaning to ask you Jimmy, b/c i use Sonar x2, and really like it,, you are obviously a cubase man.. i use vst instruments for drums and bass and record guitar tracks, probly the same thing lots of ppl are doing. just wondering what reasons would be for me to switch to cubase ? vst quality or what ever?

thanks again dude.

No need to thank man. I am in the same boat as you man.

Cubase is just my preference of DAW because I am used to it. I started with it. Well, actually, I started with Protools and almost went insane. lol

Seriously, Cubase has the best MIDI drum editor of any DAW. Other than that, I really can not say much, as I am not much of a VSTi guy, other than drums. The fact that Steinberg (Cubase) came up with the whole VST deal, may give some insight. Not being a 'synth' kind of dood, my opinion is a mute point.

I try to never persuade anyone to move to my favorite DAW. That is a personal decision. My best advice would be to download a demo and decide for yourself.

 

[jimmys69]

Oh, and to the original issue, compression is your friend. These issues can be controlled, and should be before a limiter is added. Honestly, I don't use much compression on drums individually. Though I do use parallel compression on the drum bus. I typically use compression as an effect. Not so much for volume control. That being said, low frequencies will screw up what a compressor is doing, if the low end is hitting it first. This leads more to tone/eq issues. Which also leads to monitoring and room treatment issues. Then the source recording to begin with....

I have spent years trying to fine tune any of this. Each day it becomes more clear what makes things sound good. I am still learning everyday, but I will say that it keeps getting easier to get what was a struggle last month. Each purchase, each failure, each improvement builds up to what some might call experience. I look forward to the day I feel satisfied with everything I do. Problem is, it will never happen. I'm happy with where I am now, and learning more as I go. < I'll look back on that comment two months from now, and say to myself 'how was I happy'? "I just found something new that changes everything". Likely the mics that moresound just loaned me.

 

[PDP]

Cubase 7 is awesome I love it. The drum editor is great and the key editor is second to none. Once you learn it, you can write bass lines and orchestration with ease. Cubase 7 also has hermode tuning which is a really massive sound I loved the first time I heard it. (Its basically perfect intonation for synthesizers.) It gives them a huge powerful sound.

 

[Jay C]

Oh, and to the original issue, compression is your friend. These issues can be controlled, and should be before a limiter is added. Honestly, I don't use much compression on drums individually. Though I do use parallel compression on the drum bus. I typically use compression as an effect. Not so much for volume control. That being said, low frequencies will screw up what a compressor is doing, if the low end is hitting it first. This leads more to tone/eq issues. Which also leads to monitoring and room treatment issues. Then the source recording to begin with....

I have spent years trying to fine tune any of this. Each day it becomes more clear what makes things sound good. I am still learning everyday, but I will say that it keeps getting easier to get what was a struggle last month. Each purchase, each failure, each improvement builds up to what some might call experience. I look forward to the day I feel satisfied with everything I do. Problem is, it will never happen. I'm happy with where I am now, and learning more as I go. < I'll look back on that comment two months from now, and say to myself 'how was I happy'? "I just found something new that changes everything". Likely the mics that moresound just loaned me.

yeah, i love the slow learning curve. every time i make a mix sound the tiniest little bit better, or learn something new, it just feeds my itch.. if i could be the best mix master man in the world tomorrow i hate to think of how fast i would loose interest. lol.. i had a bad time and quit music for a while, but i've never in my life been so pasionate about music since i began this very very long journy that i know will never end, and i love that...
this subject should be it's own tread...

 

[jimmys69]

yeah, i love the slow learning curve. every time i make a mix sound the tiniest little bit better, or learn something new, it just feeds my itch.. if i could be the best mix master man in the world tomorrow i hate to think of how fast i would loose interest. lol.. i had a bad time and quit music for a while, but i've never in my life been so pasionate about music since i began this very very long journy that i know will never end, and i love that...
this subject should be it's own tread...

But, there is no end. If one thinks they have found it, they would have no reason to care about music and have then failed. Go find another hobby/profession.

I am not a fan of a 'slow learning curve'. I want it all NOW!

Problem is, nothing comes instantly. Every step of the learning, gear upgrade, realization that the room screwed everything up, stop listening to rap, oops, meant 'crap' that others who don't know tell you, and realizing that everything you do leads to a better understanding of what you are doing.

Summed up:

Get cheap gear. Start learning. Realize the gear is not the problem. Fix the room. Realize the room was the problem and need better gear. Get better gear. Realize the performance was the problem. Play better or get better musicians. Realize you wasted a bunch of money getting better gear. lol! Just kidding...

The performance and the room sound has been what I have found to be the most important. Obviously along the way the tools have been upgraded to capture both. It takes every little improvement to move forward. No one upgrade will make it perfect. It is personal opinion as to what is good enough. For me, that will never happen.

I keep on learning....

The curve has been shortened quickly by listening to members here.

 

[jamusic]

...b/c i use Sonar x2, and really like it...just wondering what reasons would be for me to switch to cubase ?...

I'm not gonna try to get you to change DAWs, especially if you like Sonar X2, but I will say that I have been with Sonar since Studio 6 & have upgraded each time right up to X2a Producer.

I bought Cubase 7 in June, particularly because of:

1. A convincingly lengthy post on the Sonar forums themselves;
2. The great deal I got on Cubase 7.

Now that Sonar X3 has come out, I chose to stay with Cubase and pass on X3 altogether, and make Cubase my #1 DAW now, especially since I see so much more that it has & can do.

Sonar 6 was my 1st DAW, Studio One my 2nd & Cubase 7 my 3rd.

I don't even bother with Sonar or Studio One now.

Just sayin'...

 

[mixsit]

Summed up:

Get cheap gear. Start learning. Realize the gear is not the problem. Fix the room. Realize the room was the problem and need better gear. Get better gear. Realize the performance was the problem. Play better or get better musicians. Realize you wasted a bunch of money getting better gear. lol! Just kidding...

'It only hurts when I laugh doc'..

 

[grimtraveller]

yeah, i love the slow learning curve.

I don't. I have become accustomed to slow learning curves, I can see the value in slow learning curves, but love them ? Raffifia ! I don't even like them !!

if i could be the best mix master man in the world tomorrow i hate to think of how fast i would lose interest.

See, I'm the very opposite. If I was a great mixer or mastering engineer, I wouldn't lose interest at all. Neither my imperfections nor the joy of learning are what spur me on. Indeed, being a great mixer/masterer would increase my 'productivity' because I'd be alot quicker. And therefore would do more.

But, there is no end. If one thinks they have found it, they would have no reason to care about music and have then failed

. I don't know about that. I think you can become so proficient in something that you can no longer progress. But life isn't all about progression. Well, not to me. I remember people used to talk of 'the process' being the point or the thrill of the chase being the real joy. I think there is immense value in searching, but there is another level in finding. The interesting thing is that life doesn't end or stop once you have found. You just go through a door into a different chapter.
But I'm a crap mixer and I couldn't master if you held a gun to my gonads, so what do I know ?

 

[polarity]

So far Jimmy has hit the nail on the head with how learning to record/mix has gone for me. Start off thinking "the made this album with cheap gear so can I".. Then think the gear is crap when I can't do it. Upgrade gear and still doesn't sound right. Decide room is crap. Start working on room and it's still not good, realize that your playing is what's been crap the whole time. Rinse and repeat. Not to say the gear and the room weren't crappy, but my sound would be much better if I practiced instead of reading up on gear reviews.

 

[jimmys69]

So far Jimmy has hit the nail on the head with how learning to record/mix has gone for me. Start off thinking "the made this album with cheap gear so can I".. Then think the gear is crap when I can't do it. Upgrade gear and still doesn't sound right. Decide room is crap. Start working on room and it's still not good, realize that your playing is what's been crap the whole time. Rinse and repeat. Not to say the gear and the room weren't crappy, but my sound would be much better if I practiced instead of reading up on gear reviews.

Yep, it all comes down to the performance being the most important. Still, it is every single step in the chain, that enhances the others. It never really ends. I find that a big part of what makes it fun for me. The thrill of the chase! Though it is nice to 'kill' one now and again. That only happens when the performance is awesome...

 

[jamusic]

'It only hurts when I laugh doc'..

Just so long as it doesn't hurt when you piss...