chrishisey
New member
Okay... so this is a topic i am a little slow on... were would a good place to send out to get masterd... and do I just send them mixed versions on a cd, someone spread some light, sorry to sound really dumb.
Mastering
- Thread starter chrishisey
- Start date
Talk to massive here on the board.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Thanks for the ref, CB! 
chrishisey, if you've got a little time, check out some of the stuff at the MM site (link below in sig area). That should answer a few questions.
Geez, if it doesn't, I've wasted like 38 pages or something...
chrishisey, if you've got a little time, check out some of the stuff at the MM site (link below in sig area). That should answer a few questions.
Geez, if it doesn't, I've wasted like 38 pages or something...
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
chrishisey said:
You can send complete mixes on CD, or stems (submixes).
It's best to send your material in the highest bit resolution possible. So if you recorded at 24 bit, send the 24 bit files on a data CD rather than going to a 16 bit audio CD. Also leave the files at the same sample rate used to record the material.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
chessrock said:
I'd like to append that - Don't do anything to the mix for the sake of volume alone. If the mix needs a little EQ tweaking, it's best to do it at the track level. Same with compression. HOWEVER - If the mix needs a few dB of compression to "hold it together" that's fine. If it's being thrown on just to increase the level, leave it off. And yeah, don't normalize. Leave the mastering guy a little room to work.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Massive Master said:
And I'll concatenate to that appendage. Use good CD-R media (not cheap stuff from your local supermarket), and verify your copy if possible. CD errors degrade audio.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
And I'd like to agglutinate your concatenation to that appendage by mentioning the Plextor PlexWriter Premium by name. (A) A fantastic, professional drive. (B) PlexTools Professional error-checking software that's worth the price of the drive itself.
mshilarious
Banned
Massive, what do you like for CD-R media?
bblackwood
Senior Moment
It's not that black and white, Tom. If they are all C1 (avg BLER of <220), no C2, no CU, then there is zero degradation....masteringhouse said:
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
mshilarious said:
Excellent question - After pretty extensive study here at MM, I've found that Taiyo Yuden to have BY FAR the lowest error error rate on a regular basis.
Memorex Black and DigiMaster Silver/Silver are also excellent. But I'll tell you, as Brad mentioned, the acceptable standards states that the C1 (BLER) rate have an average of less than 200 (Brad may be right at 220... Either way) per second. Many of the T.Y. discs I've written have an error average of LESS THAN ONE per second. Not one hundred - ONE per second.
It's not an every-disc thing, but it's not unusual at all. That being said, I'm using a Plextor PlexWriter Premium - I don't get nearly those kinds of low rates on my consumer CD-R drives (Sony, Lite-On, Phillips).
A Plextor PWP drive is the best investment you can make as far as burning the good ones. Using T.Y.'s isn't bad either...
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
bblackwood said:
I realize Brad, I'm just trying to keep things simple. Most folks on this forum don't have a clover system, or Plextools to check their CDs for BLER rates and types of errors.
For clients sending data CDs, here's a good tool for verifying your disc:
http://www.elpros.si/CDCheck/
An alternate method is to use the built-in CRC check of a program like winzip by using the following procedure:
1. Zip your audio files on the hard drive.
2. Burn the zip file(s) to the CD
3. After burning, copy the zip files from the CD back to the hard drive and unzip. If no CRC errors appear during unzipping, you should be fine.
In regards to CD-R media, you can check out Glenn Meadows test pages at:
http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscreen/pageadder_page_id=89
Keep in mind that the best CD-R media will depend on the type of burner and the speed that you are burning at as Glenn's tests will show.
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masteringhouse said:
Sorry guys, but i really have a problem understanding this error rate stuff. If the song sounds fine (no clicks or skips or jumps or distortion) then what does it matter if the reader has had to do some error correction while it's reading the CD? I understand that if you start off first generation with a CD with lots of errors and then copy it and copy that copy you may run into unrecoverable errors on future generations, but why does this matter for the first generation you send off for mastering? Surely as long as the errors aren't critical causing the reader to skip the track or get stuck in a loop (as we've all experienced with CDs on home systems) then why is it a serious problem? Can some one explain please?
I'm interested because I'll be sending off my home produced album for mastering later this year. Currently my songs have all been stored on cheepo white label CDs from the supermarket and yes written on with marker pen!!! So I'm getting a bit worried here...
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
glynb said:
Have a look at the following article:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=Writing+Quality&index=0
In general it's a bad idea to:
1. Use less than quality media
2. Use a cheap CD burner
3. Write on the disc (in particular with a pen than can scratch the surface or bleed)
4. Put paper labels on the CD (can cause rotational imbalances that may lead to errors)
5. Not handle the disc properly creating scratches, fingerprints, or dust
Hmmm, I looked at the article but it was a bit too technical for me.
So, when i come to do my CD album and I use top quality CDRs, and put the tracks in order on the master CD burned at slow speed (say 1x) and I listen back and it sounds fine, no distortion and no skips and I send it off to a reputable mastering house, then they presumably would get back to me and tell me if there are any major problems with it right? (I hope so!)
Us home recordists on small budgets can't all go out and buy the best burners and fancy equipment to ensure completely error free copies, but we can take reasonable sensible steps to minimise errors right?
(sorry to go on about this)
So, when i come to do my CD album and I use top quality CDRs, and put the tracks in order on the master CD burned at slow speed (say 1x) and I listen back and it sounds fine, no distortion and no skips and I send it off to a reputable mastering house, then they presumably would get back to me and tell me if there are any major problems with it right? (I hope so!)
Us home recordists on small budgets can't all go out and buy the best burners and fancy equipment to ensure completely error free copies, but we can take reasonable sensible steps to minimise errors right?
(sorry to go on about this)
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
glynb said:
If you stick with a data CD rather than an audio CD, and use the tips that I mentioned above for verifying your disc you should be fine.
lpdeluxe
The Precision Bass Guy
I have been told by persons with experience that 2X CDRs have fewer errors than 1X, simply because the newer burners aren't designed to burn at that speed. I use 4X with my Plextor Premium (the slowest speed it has) and get typically 10 C1 errors/sec and no C2 or CU.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Actually, 4X on a solid, modern drive has become the standard. Also, by far the lowest average error rate in my experiments.
As far as error checking, most *reputable* replicators will C1 & C2 check every PMCD they get in. ALTHOUGH, SOME DON'T. I've got some experience here, and it's one of the reasons that I got out of replication.
Had a band bring in a disc from another place with a PQ sheet and all, everything looked legit. Sent it in, got back 1,000 copies with clicks on them in various areas (CD players do error-correction on the fly, and clicks may not always be in the same place audibly, although the error occurs in the same place in the data stream). Some players would just stop (seemingly) randomly.
After the fact: The PMCD had C2 errors on it. Replicating C2 errors is a very, very, very bad thing. The plant, of course, was "not responsible for errors that were on the original media," so the band was out 1,000 CD's.
The thing is, that C2 errors *usually* won't cause an audible problem. Just like 90% arterial blockage *usually* won't cause a heart-attack. It's still a problem, and a potentially big one, that needs to be nipped in the bud.
As far as error checking, most *reputable* replicators will C1 & C2 check every PMCD they get in. ALTHOUGH, SOME DON'T. I've got some experience here, and it's one of the reasons that I got out of replication.
Had a band bring in a disc from another place with a PQ sheet and all, everything looked legit. Sent it in, got back 1,000 copies with clicks on them in various areas (CD players do error-correction on the fly, and clicks may not always be in the same place audibly, although the error occurs in the same place in the data stream). Some players would just stop (seemingly) randomly.
After the fact: The PMCD had C2 errors on it. Replicating C2 errors is a very, very, very bad thing. The plant, of course, was "not responsible for errors that were on the original media," so the band was out 1,000 CD's.
The thing is, that C2 errors *usually* won't cause an audible problem. Just like 90% arterial blockage *usually* won't cause a heart-attack. It's still a problem, and a potentially big one, that needs to be nipped in the bud.
OK, so in order not to be in the same position as that band who wasted their 1,000 CDs, what should we do?
Will errors of this type be picked up by a reputable mastering facility? Can you stipulate that whoever does the mastering should check for erros of this type prior to the media going off for replication (thus shifting the onus onto the masterer) ?
What's the best way?
Will errors of this type be picked up by a reputable mastering facility? Can you stipulate that whoever does the mastering should check for erros of this type prior to the media going off for replication (thus shifting the onus onto the masterer) ?
What's the best way?