Thoughts on the Tascam MSR-24/Fostex G24S???

Nate74

Nate74

HR4FREBR
I've absolutely loved everythign I've ever recorded on my Tascam 38. I recently started an upgrade project to go to 24 tracks. I initially thought I'd pick up an Alesis HD24. My idea was I'd still track as much as possible to the 38 then dump tracks to the HD24... then a friend asked a logical question:

"Why not just get a 24 track analog machine?"

Duh I thought to myself... so there's no way i can afford a 2" machine, but for about what the HD24 costs, I can probably find a used MSR-24 or G24S.

So my main question is: Will these sound about like my Tascam 38, with just more tracks?

Which is better?

Any other thoughts would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
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The MSR24 will categorically sound more like a Tascam.

;)

I'd prefer the MSR24, but if the G24S was pristine, I'd consider it.

You're right, though, for the $ of a new digi-24-tracker, you can very well have a 1" 24-track analog deck. Price, condition and availability in your general area differs by the day. These machines are relatively scarce, however, they do float regularly on the Ebay circuit.

The track width of the MSR24 is a bit less than the 38, but the built-in dbx kinda bridges the gap. That's especially true if you're running your 38 straight, with no dbx, as comparison. The MSR24 sound would be comparable to the 38, except enhanced by being up to 24 tracks.

;)
 
ARP,
I figured you'd be the one I'd hear from first :) I actually do run the 38 with the DBX units (2 Rack Spaces Worth).

The other thought I had was a 1" 16 track. I'm sure Tascam made such a beast. I can't really imagine evern needing more than 16, but the minute I invest the money I'll most certainly want more.

Is there a noticable sound difference between a 1" 16 and a 1" 24? Do they both run at 30ips?

I'm leaning more and more in the analog direction. Many advantages as I see it. Not the least of which is being able to continue to bash digital...
 
1" 16-track is fine with me. The MS-16.

The 1" 16-track with dbx would be a bit more robust than the 1" 24-track. The MS-16 runs optional dbx, in two banks of 8. I'd have an MS-16, if I had the room.

The Tascam 38 sounds very good, and it's tough to compare that format to anything else, except the 1" 16-track, once you've gotten used to it. ;)
 
The MS-16, in my opinion, is a better sounding deck then 38 and this is largely based on its better circuitry and heads that are used.

Even though both machines have the same track width, the tape alone is not the sole determiner of complete sound quality. You have to keep in mind that the 30 series of ATRs where the basic line at their time of introduction in the early 80's. There was also the 40 and 50 series and the MS-16 was more akin to the 50 series in its construction design and sound quality.

As for needing more then 16 tracks; For me, I have rarely to never run into a production which used up all 16 tracks on mine, so as far as quality goes, I would be hesitant to select a 24 track, one inch deck in that I would be taking a step downward in track width and would be fearful of issues of track bleed-through on neighboring tracks with hot levels. This can become an issue when you want to isolate a given track in a mix on Mixdown and have it soloed for effect. Or, in cases where you want to mute out a click track or drum track and not hear a trace of it from its leaking on to its neighboring tracks. This is where guard banding comes into play with narrower format machines and my only apprehension in choosing that format over what I have right now.

As a caveat, I do not own an MSR24 so I don't know for certain that they have a problem with leakage. I only know that my current 16 track does not. :cool:

I own both a 38 and an MS-16 and do know a little bit of what I speak of here. ;)

Cheers! :)
 
When I started this upgrade project, I got a 24 channel 8 bus board to replace my 1604. If I end up with the 16 track unit, are those last 8 channels wasted? I've actually been reconsidering my choice on the board... Mackies seem to get blasted more often than not around here :(

Also, my 38 has been rock solid since I first had it serviced when I bought it 9 years ago. Can I expect the same from other Tascam units (either the 24 or 16)?

I still hear the digital idea calling too... bad bad bad, music just is so much more than zeros and ones.

As I look at the MS-16, it seems like a pretty large piece of equipment. It would about double the size of my current racks. Did anybody else make a 1" 16-track with a slightly smaller configuration that might be worth looking at?

Thanks again for your help and input.
 
Nate,

The 8 extra channels will not be a waste with a 16 track machine.

I use a custom 24 channel board which consists of two TASCAM M312B mixers cascaded together.

I use the extra channel strips as dedicated input/tracking channels and as effect returns for mixdown and for printing effects to tape which you can't ordinarily do with effect return inputs on most boards.

I have never been a huge fan of Mackie mixers myself but I know the one you are referring to and it's not a bad board at all and you shouldn't have buyer's remorse about owning it. I'm sure it will serve you well. :cool:

As to service issues with the MS-16, I have had mine for about 7 years now since I bought it used from a professional studio that bought it new, 10 years before that.

I have had only two issues with mine in all that time. One was a transistor that needed to be changed on the main motor control PCB that was fixed via house call by a technician I know in my area and the second problem was with a couple of intermittent channel cards that I have since replaced by hunting down some spares on E-bay and from a seller on on the TASCAM FORUMS site that I moderate on.

Beyond that, it came with a few burned out light bulbs that I changed myself on the meters and under the transport buttons which light up when pressed and it was actually a good learning experience to do some of the repairs and trouble shooting myself as it all helps to get a better understanding of what's under the hood.

Everything else on the deck has worked like a charm and as I mentioned previously, it's an incredible sounding recorder, professional in every sense of the word.

It does take up more floor space then a MSR24, that's true but, if you can squeeze out a bit of room for it, it will pay you back with interest in terms of sound quality for your productions. And, to the best of my knowledge, there are no other smaller 1" 16 tracks decks on the used market. They're all tank class machines.

Cheers! :)
 
So Ghost of FM, I'm guessing you're saying tracking down a MS-16 would be better than finding a MSR-24?

Besides ebay, where else can I watch for such units?

There's an MSR-24 right now but from the looks of it, it's been a while since a MS-16 has been on there.
 
Nate74 said:
So Ghost of FM, I'm guessing you're saying tracking down a MS-16 would be better than finding a MSR-24.
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No.

I'm not saying that specifically.

I'm saying that I have a concern about the thinner track width of an MSR24 but that I have not used one to know if my fear is a real or imagined one.

The MSR24 could well turn out to be a fantastic machine, only no one has chimed yet to give a testimonial on its performance.

Cheers! :)
 
Ghost of FM,
I've found a MS-16 here locally for $1900. Still waiting to hear back from the guy though on condition, and if it has all the requisite goodies.

I like your idea about the remaining 8 channels on my board. I used the "extra" tracks on my 1604 the same when with the Tascam 38.


ARP,
Any thoughts on quality/performance of your MSR-24?


All,
I read on another thread and idea that I'd not considered. It suggested running a tape machine in line with a hard disk machine. So that the "outs'' on the tape machine would feed the "ins" on the hard disk machine. That would let me track more than 8 tracks at a time, just putting the vital ones through the 38...

Durring tracking, I could do the entire kit, then go back and do a similar process for vocals, guitars, etc.

Any thoughts on that approach? Any technical issues with it?
 
Any technical issues with it?
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Keeping everything in sync would be the biggie. :confused:

The outs off of a 38 would have to be off the repro head so if you were doing this live, there would be time delay and monitoring issues to deal with.

All together, it might be a bit messy?

Cheers! :)
 
Yeah, "messy" might be putting it mildly.

So does anybody record to analog, then go to a PC format for mixing? I can handle "riding the faders" for 8 tracks, but 16 or 24 might be a bit more of a challenge. If you do take it to PC, what hardware is required for that?

(Aside: I love how smart and friendly the folk on this board are. :) )
 
Well I had the system you have now before. Now I am fully digital and adding a TSR8 for analog. Best of both worlds. Analog sound and digital editing.
I also have a 24-8 bus Mackie. It's great. I suggest outboard mic pres thats all.
I use them and it works great. I've used the Midas units but they are pricey.
Lou
 
No I have a VS1680 and Cubase SX.
With the Mackie board though, you can set up the 24 in/out arrangements to transfer tracks in real time all around.
I use 6 outs of the VS units, the Future TSR8 for 8 and then 10 including spdf to analog convert the PC.
Sounds complicated, but not really.
 
Where else can I be looking for used analog systems?

I've found Odysse Pro Sound, but what else should I check out?

Thanks.
 
Ebay has tons of stuff.

In the last few weeks, I have seen
TSR8's,38's,48s',MSR units ATR units, DA38's, 88's and that's just Tascam
Otari,Fostex, MCI, even Studer if you have the budget.

The main reason I went to a 1/2 inch 8 track is the cost of tape.
1 inch MSR24 etc is a lot pricier. I have the multitude of tracks with the PC and VS1680, so the TSR8 is for the sound of Analog, and the 1/2inch sounds great.

My opinion only, but I would go Cubase SX or the like, and say a Delta 1010LT card. Your 38 is a fine machine. I even owned the original 80-8 1/2inch from the 70's and it sounded great.

Again my opinion, which may not be the majority's, to mix both medias.
 
I've only now started to even understand the cheapy version of Cakewalk Music Maker I have. I did use it to edit a stereo mix off a demo CD I'd made and mixed off the 38.

So I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing just a standard demo even... What would a session look like with say, my band (drums, 2 guitars, 2/3 vocals, bass)?

How do you "line up" the tracks after you take them to digital... argh I had being out of touch!
 
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