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Thread: Right to Repair

  1. #11
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    And as if 'less BABIES' ..well we never go there

    (..let me change that to 'offspring' lest it be taken wrong :>)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixsit View Post
    And as if 'less BABIES' ..well we never go there

    (..let me change that to 'offspring' lest it be taken wrong :>)
    No, sorry Mixit, you totally lost me there.

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    No, sorry Mixit, you totally lost me there.

    Dave.
    Ah, sorry. The simple ver :>)
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    I still have no idea what this thread is about...

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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    I still have no idea what this thread is about...
    Its simple. We get to fix shit and do population control. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch View Post
    TBH...I never new there was anyone or anything preventing me from repairing anything I own. Been doing it all my life. Heck, I've often been surprised how people didn't want to even bother trying...and they would rather pay someone else...then they bitch about the costs.
    Not sure why some people needed legislation passed in order to feel they have the right to repair things.

    That said...just because you are given access to the schematics for some device...it doesn't mean you know WTF you are doing...and I don't think it's the manufactures job to teach consumers how to fix the products they purchased.

    AFA providing codes and repair manuals, etc....I think that has to go hand-in-hand with whatever the warranties are providing. I mean, if someone sells you a product with a warranty, they certainly don't want consumers messing with those products because what if the consumer fucks it up and there's an injury because of an improper "repair"...and then the manufacturer is blamed for it...?
    However, once the warranty is over, manuals and schematics should be made available, but just because someone has those things, they may not have all the tools needed, and that shouldn't fall on the manufacturers to provide to everyone. A repair shop works on many devices, and they have many tools on hand, plus the skills...which is why they charge for repairs.
    I think some folks overestimate their level of expertise and think they will save money...but often it costs them more.

    Like Clint said..."A man's got to know his limitations".
    I know when to break out the tools box and DIY...and when it's better to have someone else fix it.
    I use to work on my cars all the time...everything up to serious engine/tranny work. Spent many days on my back in my drive way with grease in my eye.
    Now days...I don't even change the oil anymore. Just too sore to crawl under the cars anymore...but I'll still pop the hood and do something basic. It's just a matter of time and the fact that I've got a gravel driveway, so lifts don't work well with out supports...and it's just not a healthy way to work.

  8. #18
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    Wth the GREATEST respect Miroslav, you, I and many others on this forum are not Joe Public. "Right to Repair" is perhaps a clumsy way to put it?

    Of course, anyone has the right to tinker. mess with, Fup! Gear they own but for the vast majority of people they have neither the skills, the place, the tools nor the inclination. A R2R bill in my view would try to stop manfctrs making "ordinary" kit SO cheaply and SO badly and SO inacessable that repair is very difficult or plain impossible. I understand for instance that many new FSTV cases are GLUED together?

    Look back at my example of the old boy's scooter PSU? Don't matter how smart you are, if that PCB with all the control chips on it has burned out, you can't fix it (well, I could have had a shot for my own use but I would be in a dodgy legal position to give it back to OB NOTas per mnfctr's specification and had it burnt his garage down "I" can't even claim "amateur" status. Was me job!)

    What I would like to see is the right of legitimate technicians to get service information and spares readily and at sensible cost. I don't want to keep harping on a "golden era" but there WAS a countrywide network of dealers where customers could take a radio, telly, toaster! and get it fixed for a reasonable sum. That is all gone now and for the reasons given above.

    There is another, more subtle side effect to the lack of repair shops? I read almost daily in HR of people have THE most basic electrical problems with equipment. They have not the slightest knowledge of even the most basic of circuits and a scare witless to try anything. Not when I was 15,20, 30 becuase everyone knew someone who "knew a bit about radios".

    We have but one Earth but we go on as if we had three!

    Dave.

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    Well...no one is going to get manufacturers to specifically adjust their designs to make them more easily repairable by the average Joe...and then also provide step-by-step instructions for every "all-thumbs" idiot to easily make those repairs.
    Also...much of todays devices are heavily code/computer based, with ultra-miniature components that are assembled by robots and/or under microscopes using very advanced techniques. Heck, it's because Joe Public wants things cheap-n-small-n-feature-packed that we get these types of products.
    I mean really...who the heck at home is going to repair their smartphone...?

    For that matter would want to even try and repair their washing machine or dryer. I've fixed both in my house, and parts and instructions were readily available...meanwhile folks at my day gig were kinda surprised, like that it was possible without needing to call a repair man...but mostly they were puzzled why anyone would even bother when you can buy new ones relatively cheap these days...which is kinda true. I mean, You can buy a decent washing machine for maybe $500 on sale (you can also spend $3k if you're crazy)...but my answer was simple, I could fix it for $50 and spend the other $450 on something else.

    I don't know what service technicians can or can't obtain from manufacturers AFA repair info. I've not ever heard any specific from anyone who does repair work...but bottom line, some things are just not repairable or it would cost to much.
    As an example...one of my refrigerators (I have two) started to make a clunk when it would cycle off its cooling. Sometimes the clunk was loud. So I called Sears Repair, since I bought the refrigerator from them...and they sent a tech. I met him outside my door, and he asked what the problem was, and I explained it to him...and he smiled and said, "I know what the problem is, one of the rubber bushings inside the compressor housing had ripped off", so when it cycled off, it would shake a bit and clunk...but he added that you couldn't fix it, since it was sealed inside, and you had to replace the whole compressor, which would run about $900 with labor, and he also said that it wasn't worth it, and that he would tell Sears I cancelled the service call, otherwise he would have to charge me $85 just for coming in. Really nice, fair guy...oh, and he also said it was perfectly safe if the occasional clunk didn't bother me, and the refrigerator may work fine for another 10 or more years...or it might eventually die, if all the rubber bushings came loose and something broke inside.
    It's already been at least 5 years since...and I still have the same refrigerator.

  10. #20
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    "Well...no one is going to get manufacturers to specifically adjust their designs to make them more easily repairable by the average Joe...and then also provide step-by-step instructions for every "all-thumbs" idiot to easily make those repairs."

    I did not say that Miroslav. No, manufacturers never did support the Average Joe(din't stop *wats effing about with stuff mind!) What has happened HERE in the last 20 years or so is that repair shops have disappeared. Yes, due to goods getting much cheaper (but note OB's charger!) but also because it is not in the companie's interest to have consumers keep a TV or indeed a fridge for ten years so in UK at least support for FAIR DEALING electrical traders who USED to fix things has been eroded to nothing. No technical support, no schematics and no spares.

    Here we used to have dealers that specialized in certain brands. One shop would stock say Ferguson and Rank Bush Murphy, maybe some Pye. Another, Grundig, Philips, B&O and so forth. Because they stocked a limited range they got good support from the manufacturers and the punter had a choice of over a score of brands even in this lil' town. We now have two such shops. One just Sony and Panasonic the other pretty high end hi fi.

    You made the point about SMT circuit boards? Yes, tricky even for a good tech to service but mnfrctrs COULD make "service replacements" available to The Trade. They don't AFAIK and so a 300 usb mixer goes to landfill for the want of a 5 PCB. Yes, if stuff was designed for such replacements it would cost more but would be a hell of a lot "greener". It is these sorts of ideas that I hope the proposed legislation will address. We now have a a 5p charge for plastic bags in supermarkets and that will be extended to ALL businesses in about a year. That law works! Bag pollution has dropped massively.

    Fix a mobile phone? Good example! Some brands I understand make battery replacement a factory return job and costs >$100? There are steps being taken in EU I understand to stop this rip off.

    I am typing on a 7yr old HP i3 laptop. It is on its second keyboard and third battery. Keyboard cost me 30 fitted IIRC. How much to do that with a Surface or macbook?

    "We" in the Developed World cannot go on consuming at the present rate, there has got to be a radical change in how "the economy" works (it wasn't allways as it is now) otherwise our grandchildren are looking at a very bleak world and one I fear rife with VERY dissatified peoples. One way we can make a small dent in the problem is to mend stuff instead of just chucking it for the next shiny.

    Dave.

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