G9 tape...
- Thread starter cvalona
- Start date
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Beck
Guest
If you mean GP9, then the answer is yes and no. The problem is if you really want to use it right you have to recalibrate for it, including tape tension, and levels and bias for all 16 channels. But you wouldn’t want to go to the trouble because it’s not recommended for regular use on a machine like the MSR-16. It will wear it out much quicker.
You can however use it occasionally with less than optimal results. GP9 will sound brighter on a machine setup for 456, but it’s high frequency distortion from being under biased. The levels will be off as well. You might like the effect on some things, but again, don’t use GP9 regularly on an MSR-16, Fostex E16, etc.
If I had a new and sealed reel of ½” GP9 I would sell it on eBay and use the money to buy more 456 or 406 among a few other choices you might want to try. 456 is even a bit hot for Tascam ½” machines. IMO Quantegy 406 or Scotch 206 are about perfect, with 456 being the max.
The other thing is that the biggest advantage of higher output tape like GP9 is to increase dynamic range. But the tracks on a ½” 16-track machine are really too thin and close together to realize the benefit. It doesn’t help at all if you use the dbx noise reduction, and not using dbx on those machines is really going to increase crosstalk, print-through, and background hiss even with a higher output tape. Using dbx with either 406 or 456 you have a signal-to-noise ratio of better than 105 dB. In practical terms that’s a complete absence of background noise. None... zip... zero! Can’t get any better than that. As far as noise that’s as good as digital.
You can however use it occasionally with less than optimal results. GP9 will sound brighter on a machine setup for 456, but it’s high frequency distortion from being under biased. The levels will be off as well. You might like the effect on some things, but again, don’t use GP9 regularly on an MSR-16, Fostex E16, etc.
If I had a new and sealed reel of ½” GP9 I would sell it on eBay and use the money to buy more 456 or 406 among a few other choices you might want to try. 456 is even a bit hot for Tascam ½” machines. IMO Quantegy 406 or Scotch 206 are about perfect, with 456 being the max.
The other thing is that the biggest advantage of higher output tape like GP9 is to increase dynamic range. But the tracks on a ½” 16-track machine are really too thin and close together to realize the benefit. It doesn’t help at all if you use the dbx noise reduction, and not using dbx on those machines is really going to increase crosstalk, print-through, and background hiss even with a higher output tape. Using dbx with either 406 or 456 you have a signal-to-noise ratio of better than 105 dB. In practical terms that’s a complete absence of background noise. None... zip... zero! Can’t get any better than that. As far as noise that’s as good as digital.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
+1 to all that.
I think the question that you need to ask yourself is WHY do you want to use GP9? And if the answer is that you want more tape character and you figure a higher output tape will do it then the answer to that is that you're going about it backwards, especially on a narrow format like the 1/2" 16-track as Beck pointed out. You want a more tape-ey sound with your MSR-16? Then do as Beck suggested and get yourself some 406. The amp electronics in the MSR will have an easier time bringing out the tape character with 406 since the threshhold for saturation is much lower.
It all depends on what you are recording and what your goal is but I just thought I'd reinforce what Beck is saying and beg the question because I find so many people have it backwards. I would have NEVER run a +9 tape on my 388 (1/4" 8-track so same format although 7.5ips vs 15ips) simply because my experience calibrating the thing reinforced that the electronics both audio and bias amplification were not designed to push +9 tape to saturation levels...not that the goal is saturating the tape to one degree or another, but that is typically what brings out the tape character that you bought the thing for in the first place. And then, yeah, crosstalk specs get worse as you push the levels and are you using noise reduction? If so you'll mess the coding/decoding up with the dbx if you aren't keeping the levels somewhat tame. 406 on a machine like that would really get your cake with a fork for eatin' too as you'd get some harmonic tape distortion while keeping levels nominal for the dbx process and maintaining low crosstalk. The machine was designed for +6 tape in an era when the goal was input=ouput. Drop it to a +3 tape and you can operate the electronics as designed but get some more character out of your tape. Try it!
I think the question that you need to ask yourself is WHY do you want to use GP9? And if the answer is that you want more tape character and you figure a higher output tape will do it then the answer to that is that you're going about it backwards, especially on a narrow format like the 1/2" 16-track as Beck pointed out. You want a more tape-ey sound with your MSR-16? Then do as Beck suggested and get yourself some 406. The amp electronics in the MSR will have an easier time bringing out the tape character with 406 since the threshhold for saturation is much lower.
It all depends on what you are recording and what your goal is but I just thought I'd reinforce what Beck is saying and beg the question because I find so many people have it backwards. I would have NEVER run a +9 tape on my 388 (1/4" 8-track so same format although 7.5ips vs 15ips) simply because my experience calibrating the thing reinforced that the electronics both audio and bias amplification were not designed to push +9 tape to saturation levels...not that the goal is saturating the tape to one degree or another, but that is typically what brings out the tape character that you bought the thing for in the first place. And then, yeah, crosstalk specs get worse as you push the levels and are you using noise reduction? If so you'll mess the coding/decoding up with the dbx if you aren't keeping the levels somewhat tame. 406 on a machine like that would really get your cake with a fork for eatin' too as you'd get some harmonic tape distortion while keeping levels nominal for the dbx process and maintaining low crosstalk. The machine was designed for +6 tape in an era when the goal was input=ouput. Drop it to a +3 tape and you can operate the electronics as designed but get some more character out of your tape. Try it!
lonewhitefly
Active member
If everyone knew this, scotch 111 would be flying of the (proverbial eBay) shelves !
I used Scotch 203 ('0' level) set up for +3. I can control the overdrive of the tape pretty well when mixing. If I want it clean, I can just back off a bit. I think it's better to set up your deck for higher than the tape you're using, because you can always lower the input volume if you want clean. If you set it up hot, you don't have the option of overloading the tape.
the old-school engineer who helped me w/ my Ampex recommended it, and told me that they used to do this back in the '70s.
Hello and thank you for the info on the Quantegy GP9 versus the 456 that I have been using.
No I don't want to wear out my machine faster and no I don't want to re-bias or re-calibrate my MSR 16 in order to accommodate
the use of GP9.
Anybody interested in buying my un-used roll of GP9. I have no idea what it's worth ? However, I sure do love the red anodized reel, it looks so cool !
peace & kindness, charles
No I don't want to wear out my machine faster and no I don't want to re-bias or re-calibrate my MSR 16 in order to accommodate
the use of GP9.
Anybody interested in buying my un-used roll of GP9. I have no idea what it's worth ? However, I sure do love the red anodized reel, it looks so cool !
peace & kindness, charles